I realize this article focuses primarily on comparative energy efficiency, but missing from the discussion is an equally important comparison of powertrain reliability, complexity, performance, and long-term cost of ownership.
If I buy a 60k electric vehicle today, how long will it be until I replace the batteries? 10 years? 20 years? At what point does the maintenance cycle, render the car worthless?
Even after 12 years, the Saturn SL1 I had still worked as a car. There would still be maintenance cycles (oil, brakes, etc). But if you took that into the cost of ownership, it's still relatively cheaper than buying a new car.
A battery replacement is an economical choice for an EV. You could buy a new vehicle or buy a life extension of another decade plus. That's how long the battery lasts and there's very little else in the vehicle that is very likely to start falling apart. Electrical engines last a long time. Drive trains are much simpler. And parts for that are relatively cheap. So even if the engine were to fail, replacing it would be pretty straightforward and cheap probably.
E.g. a Nissan Leaf battery replacement will set you back around 7000 dollars. A lot of money for sure. But it will last quite long and when there's really nothing else wrong with the vehicle, it's a perfectly rational decision to make. Lots of original Nissan Leafs from 12 years ago are still driving around and quite a few will survive into their second and third decade. As it is one of the older EV models available, that's a great benchmark. We're talking first generation technology. The batteries and drive train were more primitive. Cooling and battery management were not a thing yet. Etc. Just great little vehicles. And a 7K battery doubles their original range (from 20kwh to 40kwh).
This is better than Tesla which charges $12-20k + labor + parts to change the battery pack. But $7k is still a big chunk of change. That will set a price cliff on the car. Basically if it is worth $13k, but you're going to need a battery change in the next year, the true price of the car will be worth $6k on the market. Cars that are less than $7k become effectively worthless as the new buyer will be guaranteed to have to replace the battery pack on them.
This happens with home sales. Like if a house needs a new roof, the buyers will ask the home owners to discount the price of the new roof off the house.
The BMS babies the batteries. Forget what you think you know about LiPo from laptops and cellphones. For example: you can't get a Zoe without A/C. Why not? Because the battery is air cooled, by the A/C. If there is capacity left over AFTER ensuring the battery is comfortable, it is shared with the human occupants. :)
In northwestern Europe, the reason would be low emission zones. "Sorry, this type of car is not allowed here anymore." is a real thing here.
These are not old or bad cars to a lot of people. Many are not able to afford car mobility anymore due to low emission zone restrictions on these cars.
It's easy for the upper middle class or above running society to develop a blind spot for this. "Just buy recent a second hand car or a new Dacia Spring" is not the answer if the money for that is missing.
Has enough attention been paid to this social side of the low emissions zones? I'm not so sure.
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_emission_standards#Em...
The emissions testing was a result of the 1970s/1980s smog crisis.
Tyre wear can be heavy in EV's if you put your foot down a lot, brake wear is a lot lighter.
At about 200k the battery may well go - but at 200k you can expect something major in your ICE drive chain to go. A new gearbox can set you back $6k - that's pretty similar to the cost of a tesla battery replacement.
Starter $800 (on warranty).
AC $400.
Transmission service $1500 at 70k.
Coolant flush $400.
2 set of brake pads @ $400 a piece.
Timing belt $200.
Battery $100.
Oil changes at $30 every 3k miles. Lets call it $1k total.
Cabin Air filter change every 15k miles $20
Bottom heat shield $100
Shocks @100k miles $250
I wonder if we have any newer information that doesn't rely on predictions?
Id suspect you do lots of highway miles with no gear changes (hence no clutch wear). Manufacturers now aim for ideal 150K life on a clutch, but that's aspirational, not the median by any means.
some of the cars that i've seen have EV equivalents that are so significantly more costly that the gas savings only start to work out at around 1.25-2x the average driving distance of a personal vehicle owner. it makes no sense for example for me to replace my glc300 with a eqc. and if you don't drive at least 10k miles/yr, the kona electric is more expensive than the kona ice.
a lot of discussions revolve around downgrading from an expensive ice to a cheap ev to make the cost work but that seems a bit disingenuous. of course getting a cheaper car is cheaper. when we do like-for-like, a lot of the advantages disappear.
In short, that's why a lot of commercial fleets are transitioning to electric. Dollar per mile is the only relevant metric there. ICE vehicle technology is basically going obsolete rapidly. Commercially, that game is over.
And the gap is widening every year. We've had a period where the tax incentives were important, helpful and necessary. But that is increasingly just a nice to have thing.
Fundamentally, it's not technically hard to build much lighter and efficient electrical vehicles. So, if the current ones are cost effective now, imagine how much more cost effective they could be.
My Tesla can go 4 miles with 10 cents worth (1 kWh) of electricity, or 40 miles per $1.
Obviously there can be mitigating factors, but even if you drive a 50 MPG ICE car, or your electricity is unusually expensive, or you drive your Tesla at 85 mph and only get 2 miles per kWh, it's still no contest.
Basically, if you charge using solar panels that you own, the miles per dollar is a function of maintenance, and purchase cost of the vehicle and panels. The efficiency of the panels or vehicles are not a factor at all since the variable cost is 0$/mile. You only have variable cost when you charge the vehicle somewhere else. The non variable cost is basically the ownership of the vehicle and panels. Which you might simplify via e.g. leasing constructions.
What's not to understand about such a simple comparison?
To clarify, most EV cars use only regen braking until either the pedal is pressed (Tesla regens automatically by letting off the accelerator) or when the pedal is pressed hard (most other EVs).
On a Nissan Leaf, mild regenerative is always engaged in Eco mode unless you touch gas. Otherwise when you put on the brake it's regenerative + extra braking with pads if necessary.
On BMW i3 it brakes regeneratively once you slip the gas. If you use the brake pedal hard it's still regen + pads.
On VW id.4 it's quite like on the Leaf.
On all three it's pads only braking only when the battery is fully charged.
It is interesting to consider how to make "brake by wire" safe. Stop and consider it a second...
(Answer:)
The pedal has failsafe interlock between your foot and the master cylinder which is "normally closed". When you ask for braking and the computer is running right, and the propulsion system can regen, then the brake pads will receive zero hydraulic pressure. If anything keeps regen from working (computer or network failure, batter is full, you are asking for more braking than the motor can make), the failsafe kicks in and your foot is connected straight to the master cylinder in order to make as much hydraulic pressure at the pads as you care to make.
So they don't encourage only charging to 90% like on Tesla to maintain good braking action?
Downvote me all you like, the chart is claiming that EVs are perpetual motion machines.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32458027
I'm disappointed in HackerNews.