Yeah they would have "sovereignty", just without most of the rights of a real state.
Should the English GTFO to Denmark/Normandy/... and give the island back to the Welsh/etc.?
What about Turks, should they move back to Central Asia and give Anatolia back to Greece?
If those are not your proposals, perhaps we can just chill for a few hundred years until Israelis living where they have built a state is old enough for you to accept? :D
Oh yeah for extra credit, do the facts that Crimea, definitely, and Eastern regions, arguably, were transferred to Ukraine very recently; and then Ukraine supposedly "oppressed" them by revoking some status from Russian language, etc., justify the annexation of Crimea and/or the invasion by Russia? Cause, you know, "history", and "oppression"!
The different of curse being that what we are talking about is much more recent and until very recently in living memories, with people still having the keys to the houses they were forced out of.
And secondary that by now the Vikings stopped arriving in Engalnd, while the Zionists continue to steal more and more land despite their agreements not to do so.
We can't change history, but saying well in the past we didn't prevent colonization, so why not just accept the systematic repression of Palestinian and the clear policy of ethnic cleansing. How is that morality? How can you justify that? That you have to talk about the viking age to justify your position tells volumes.
But the reality is, Israel is established, and its not moral to push them out and destroy it. However, how the fuck can you justify that the colonization is still going on. Literally ever year Israel is doing its best to import as many people as they can settle them into strategic territories in the West Bank where they continually take away more and more water.
And even worse leading right wing parties internal plan is to shed another few million Palestinians and then treat the small Palestians enclaves as Bantustans or not unlike Jews Gettos in Nazi Germany. Used at most to extract cheap labor.
So good luck with your historical justification for oppressing people. I'm sure the Nazis were also justified in their policy 'hey, historically jews were slaughtered during the crusade, so why are people so angry at us?'.
As for oppression in general, would you claim Israeli Arabs have worse life than Palestinians? I doubt it. Living under Israeli control in a peaceful way I'm pretty sure working much better for them.
On the other hand, in the name of belonging to a different desert death cult, i.e. out of pure anti-semitism, surrounding states sacrifice the Palestinians' lives. They used to just invade every now and then; now that they are weak they instead invest in brainwashing people like you. They rejected 2-state compromise more so than Israel, then they captured the Palestinian territories in 1948 war and controlled them for 20 years (were people then crying about occupation and oppression?) but that was not enough for them either, etc. They are not good faith actors and are treated really well by Israel given that - compared to most other states treating people in the same situation, including now (e.g. Myanmar). "Keys to houses" lol. They could have been living normal lives in Israel OR Jordan for 50 years. But no, in the name of "different death cult"/nationalistic propaganda they choose to suffer and make Israelis suffer.
"Literally ever year Israel is doing its best to import as many people as they can settle them into strategic territories" funny, when right-wingers say it its rightly called out as a racist conspiracy "replacement" theory. I am personally pro-immigration; but hey, I guess it's horseshoe theory in action :D
Absolutely, Israel still has more steps to take towards peace (eg, removing settlements).
Historically though, PA leadership has rarely demonstrated any honest desire for compromise or peace. Hamas, currently the government in Gaza, literally calls for the “obliteration” of the State of Israel as part of its charter.
You are free to call Hamas a terrorist group, I don't have big problem on that.
However, a very bold however, using the existence of Hamas as an excuse to paint the ongoing sufferings of Palestinians as "there is a reason behind it" or "Palestinians have their own faults as well" is not helpful - Palestinians kids growing up in isolation, poverty, anger, fear and lack of education are the ones joining Hamas tomorrow.
Like it or not, 30% of the world’s countries identify as Muslim majority and part of the Organization of Islamic Cooperation.
None of those countries recognize Israel as a state.
Just because a bunch of countries believe (or don’t believe) something doesn’t make it a fact.
The statehood is all about recognization. Please check your favorite dictionary, e.g. mine says
state·hood /ˈstātˌho͝od/ the status of being a recognized independent nation.
When talking about such recognization, there are around 8 billion people living on earth today, out of that 8 billion real people, only about 1.5 billion (18%) living in countries that do not recognize the State of Palestine as a full sovereign state. a quick break down -
750 million living in Europe, almost the entire Europe refuses to recognize the State of Palestine. 450 million in North America 130 million in Japan 30 million in Australia & New Zealand 70 million in Thailand
When the vast majority of the human race recognize it as a state, when the statehood is all about recognization. It is a fact.
The recognition you point to from other countries, is, at its heart, political. Those other countries are Muslim majority and vehemently anti-Israel. Ignoring that political and religious bias is intellectually dishonest.
But, if you still maintain Palestine is indeed a state, please answer the following:
- when was its independence? - who is the leader? - what is its currency? - who are its main trade partners?
Israel is of course a state, it is a state established in 1948 and its border should thus remain in the shape and form of 1948.
> when was its independence?
15 November 1988 for declaring independence. 29 November 2012 for becoming an observer state of the United Nation General Assembly.
It becomes a fully recognized state when the UNGA observer state status was obtained after a formal vote by countries around the world. You are free to consider it as the consensus of the human race.
Ultimately, states don't have unanimous definitions and just relying on a dictionary definition is not sufficient.
Have a look at the wiki on it. They are a country.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_recognition_of...
Israel is not the same as the Palestinian territories, it is a neighbour, and in the state of Israel, Jews and Arabs and Christians and Atheists have very similar rights.
Israel literally bombs them 100-1000 more and with lots of popular support and immigration takes ever more land and water away.
But Im sure the glorified fireworks that the Israelis claim are nuclear ICBM are far worse then the amarican fighter aircraft.