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Comment by notch656a | Hacker News Reader

Wouldn't filing a form 8300 be unconstitutional violation of the 5th amendment if the cash is an element of the crime of both parties? As an example, felons can't be charged with NFA violations for owning a short barrel rifle for example because registering their firearm would be self-incrimination. I believe Timothy Leary also got out of being charged with Marijuana reporting [tax] requirement because filing for the tax would self-incriminate his possession.

Edit: See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haynes_v._United_States for NFA. Thanks below for Leary.

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I have NEVER heard of any of this. Can you provide any sources?

I think the 5th has been restricted enough by the courts that it literally only matters if you EXPLICITLY invoke it. (At least this is my understanding of Berghuis v. Thompkins.)

Leary v United States https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/395/6/

Criminals are still required to pay taxes, they just aren't required to list its source (misc entry on income form). Leary's case was won on the basis that the registering provision violated the right to not self-incriminate (and that you couldn't pay that tax without registering).

Similar for the NFA case - they can't get then for the failure to register, but they can still get them for manufacturing/possessing it (especially since it was amended after the ruling).

>Criminals are still required to pay taxes, they just aren't required to list its source

>they can't get then for the failure to register

A criminal filing an 8300 would be effectively "registering" their illegally owned money, including the source from who the money is received.

Please read prior comment

"and that you couldn't pay that tax without registering"

Ultimately though the issue wasn't the tax, but that you had to register the evidence of your crime. If you could pay the tax anonymously it would have been fine. On the flipside, merely a requirement to register without paying the tax would still be self incrimination.

The form 8300 actually requires you to state both counterparties of the illegal transaction, which goes well within furnishing evidence useful in incriminating yourself. It's far more incriminating than the annual tax return, which shows an aggregate yearly amount rather than granularity of single transaction (or collection of "associated"-transaction) along with the date and name of both counterparties and a host of other details.

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