Comment by kodah | Hacker News Reader

Comment by kodah | Hacker News Reader

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I wouldn't call myself a psychonaut yet, but I do love hallucinations. One thing I think the article didn't touch on that I found profoundly interesting is depersonalization. I had a trip recently where I entirely left my conscious reality behind, temporarily, except by a very thin thread. Some context for those that don't follow the fractals, depersonalization isn't super common on things like mushrooms or LSD, but it can happen. The effect is less pronounced than on things like deliriants where things that are not real are overly convincingly real among many other related symptoms. I entered a state of mind where I got to visualize all the paths a thought could branch to and what ark that would carry on my thinking in the long term. At first it was pretty terrifying to leave my body, but once I accepted my circumstances I was able to observe without fear. My experience wasn't as healing as my other trips, rather, this time, I learned a tool for observing without expectation or controls. It was a lot to unpack, especially on a trip where I didn't actually intend to do much, if any, thinking. I'm still glad I did it.

Also, word to the wise, if you're going to dabble in hallucinations be responsible:

- have a sober trip sitter that knows how to dig you out of bad places (change lights, introduce sensations, change music, etc)

- have a benzo or heavy CBD gummy on hand to hit the big red stop button if things get too intense

I’ve had some depersonalization after I took a large dose of mushrooms at a concert in Alpine Valley. I lost track of myself. I would hear people talk, including my own voice, but none of them was more me than any other. I realized my sense of self or identification with thoughts/vocalizations I call myself was not necessary. The mushrooms seemed to turn the identification part down. I was as much the little girl talking to her father as I was Seth talking to friends. The part of my mind that creates the projections of others was still working, but the identification with any one of these projections had dropped.

Part of my purpose is to know the nature of my reality. I wish for those who are seeking the same to be able to do so legally.

The very first piece of advice the internet should give you if you start googling things about psychedelics is "Have benzos".

Benzos are more important than a trip-sitter. If things go south, no human being can contain the possible damage. Benzos will put you right back down to earth. It could mean the difference between 30 minutes of an unpleasant experience or being hospitalized.

Now that you have been through it, do you think you would be able to reasonably emulate the cognitive aspect of the experience, leaving aside all of the ~emotional/experiential aspects of it?

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EDIT: I've exceeded my three posts per day limit but am keenly interested in this topic, so will reply here hoping you will see it (if not, I will re-post as a reply tomorrow):

> Like, can I observe myself more readily without judgement and emotion? Yeah, I think these experiences teach me to do that in new and fascinating ways over time, but it is absolutely iterative. If you're asking if I can make the same discoveries without LSD now that I've done it once, maybe - but I doubt it. Many of the chains LSD relieves you of you are so accustomed to having that you may not even know they're present.

I'm aiming for much more nuanced detail (a trick: think of what we are discussing as a project that you are being paid to implement, which can facilitate the application of the full horsepower of your mind to the idea).

I think the key word here is "emulate" - you experienced an alternative but genuinely real & "true" mode of operation of your mind, one that is superior in some ways:

- I entered a state of mind where I got to visualize all the paths a thought could branch to

- and what ark that would carry on my thinking in the long term

- once I accepted my circumstances I was able to observe without fear

- I learned a tool for observing without expectation or controls

If you break your experience down into discrete bullet points like this, and you conceptualize them as services or implementations, and then you apply some of your standard computing analysis skills to the whole thing, do you believe it may possible (for you, or someone) to achieve a (crude or otherwise) reproduction/emulation of these abilities?

Responding to the edit: I don't think I could emulate it, but maybe someone with a different mind could.

Categorically, my mind isn't visual with things like math. It's more process oriented. Visualizing DFS on thought paths would probably be very short lived for me; like maybe I could imagine an outcome being possible but I wouldn't fluidly move down that graph node-to-node the way it was visualized that time. Another thing is that while I am very process oriented and use process to deal with things like emotions, I am still a very emotional human being. It would be tough to separate myself from that trait without some metaphorical grease.

LSD removes a lot of the inhibitions you have with respect to `self` or `this` in programming terms. Observations occur without judgement of yourself or others; it's just a pure observation. In fact, I might say that you actually learn to appreciate things differently. The nice thing is that those things don't stay; you have to choose to copy over the attitudes and incentives you found in your trip to make them stay. Thus, change is pretty incremental.

> Categorically, my mind isn't visual with things like math. It's more process oriented. Visualizing DFS on thought paths would probably be very short lived for me; like maybe I could imagine an outcome being possible but I wouldn't fluidly move down that graph node-to-node the way it was visualized that time. Another thing is that while I am very process oriented and use process to deal with things like emotions, I am still a very emotional human being. It would be tough to separate myself from that trait without some metaphorical grease.

What if you used a piece of paper to keep track of computation, or even better: custom written software? And then on top of it, used some techniques to remove time from interfering with computation (something which can also be experienced on psychedelics)?

Like, can I observe myself more readily without judgement and emotion? Yeah, I think these experiences teach me to do that in new and fascinating ways over time, but it is absolutely iterative.

If you're asking if I can make the same discoveries without LSD now that I've done it once, maybe - but I doubt it. Many of the chains LSD relieves you of you are so accustomed to having that you may not even know they're present.

To comment on getting out of a bad place in a trip... We've found that just talking about the feeling is extremely helpful in moving on. Instead of stewing and digging deeper, somehow that seems to bring us out.

Also extremely important: try to figure out exactly what you are ingesting and how much. I can’t stress enough how important the dosage is when taking psychedelics - start low and work your way up to a dosage that you are comfortable with across a handful of sessions ideally.

Unfortunately for some substances it’s hard to determine exactly how much active material you’re getting (eg, LSD tabs, dried mushrooms), but again, start low.

F benzos, use Gabapentin, Pregabalin or GHB. Out of all of them, etizolam (yeah, I know, it's not an "official" benzo, but afaik it works similarly to alprazolam) was the hardest to quit while having meh effects.

There's a difference between acute benzodiazepine/thienodiazepine use, as "break glass in case of emergy" thing, and daily use resulting in physical addiction.

After you take the CBD to stop things, what happens?

Along these lines, does CBD stop things?

I honestly haven't had to do it. I try to ride my bad trips out as long as I'm rooted in my reality and feel safe doing so. CBD has anti-psychotic properties, CBD also binds to the very same serotonin receptors that LSD does. From what I've read, benzos are like hitting the emergency brakes - all things stop when the pill takes effect. CBD turns down the volume, which likely makes a bad trip more tolerable or turns it into an okay trip.

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