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Comment by javajosh | Hacker News Reader

11th gen owners aren't going to be happy. That laptop isn't even a year old and it's already being left behind for upgrades. This doesn't bode well for the core value proposition of framework. At the very least they should offer a deep discount for 11th gen owners wanting to upgrade their main boards.

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I don't think it's crazy that you don't get evergreen upgrades to a system you've already bought, especially when you can just upgrade the motherboard to the 12th gen (which is actually the core value proposition of framework) https://frame.work/marketplace/mainboards

They do address it in the post:

> For 11th Gen systems, we also have a firmware update in progress to bring in the security updates and power consumption improvements, but not retroactively certify Thunderbolt (there are some test cases we don’t believe we can resolve on that generation, unfortunately).

Sounds like a hardware thing, which again you can upgrade

Yeah, well replacing your whole laptop is an upgrade too. The mainboard is by far the most expensive component, so saying "you can just replace it" obviates the point of the frameowork.

I'm honestly baffled by this. That's not their claim at all, I don't see them claiming that evergreen software updates are "the point" anywhere. They talk about repairability and upgradeability. They never claimed the 11th (or 12th!) gen had or would ever have Thunderbolt 4. I don't see at all why you think that software updates are "the point" of Framework.

My concern isn't about Framework's claim, but about their behavior. It seems like they are abandoning the 11th gen mainboards, which were still being sold until just a few months ago. This points to a business strategy of planned obsolescence for mainboards. My concern is that this isn't so different, from a price or environmental perspective, from the more common strategy of making the whole laptop obsolete.

Their behaviour of... not being able to change the hardware that's currently in your laptop?

You're still generating a lot less trash than replacing the whole laptop, but I have a hard time imagining how you can get the level of consumer-upgradeability you seem to want in a laptop form factor. You have to compromise somewhere.

The awesome thing about Framework is that it is even possible to upgrade the main board without trashing the entire machine. Purchasers of the 11th gen system should still very much reap the benefits of the Framework ecosystem. Being able to upgrade is the very key point!

No matter what new camera I buy, the manufacturer going to ship something newer and better soon. So it is with most things in the modern era.

I'm an 11th gen owner. I'm not happy. The fact that its upgradable is great, but that doesn't mean that the company should treat the most expensive component by a long shot as quickly disposable. A $500 disposable mainboard is 80% as bad as a disposable laptop.

Wasn't they planning to release a kit to turn mainboard into a home server like Mac Mini? I guess it was part of appeal that you can reuse mainboard after it no longer used in laptop.

I don't get why owners should get a discount. They purchased an11th gen Intel laptop, they still have an 11th gen Intel laptop. Unlike other brands they can relatively cheaply upgrade them to 12th gen.

I don't recall them advertising Thunderbolt compatibility, it was always an unadvertised feature.

The blog post made it clear they're shipping all the Thunderbolt firmware improvements to the 11th gen as well, it's just minor hardware differences that are blocking a few test cases and official certification. It sounds like you can enable Thunderbolt relatively easily if you're okay with that caveat.

As an 11th gen owner I honestly don't know what thunderbolt certification would realistically do for me. Every usecase I personally have where I plug something into my machine it works just fine. In other-words this announcement doesn't change anything for me nor do I want anything. Maybe when my 12th gen Chromebook gets here I'll be able to tell a difference ;)

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