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Comment by sirsinsalot | Hacker News Reader

As both a programmer and manager of teams of programmers, this take is wrong.

Don't use "we" when you mean "I".

If I interviewed a programmer who had this view point, they wouldn't get the job.

Good (not necessary) processes manage risk. Risk needs to be managed whenever money changes hands in exchange for goods and services. These processes ensure you get paid.

It's a profession. Just as a builder or architect shouldn't hate plans and drawings, programmers need to care as much about the surrounding engineering processes as the "hammer and nails" act of coding.

It's the difference between a professional engineer and an arrogant, hobby hacker.

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You are absolutely right. But I will fake my way into your company on the whole business thing and still remain an arrogant, hobby hacker. But not too arrogant. You simply need my technical skills and I need the $$. Plus the job is often fun, at least a good portion of it. At least for a while.

I am really happy there exist more business people that look after processes and whatnot, because it does seem like we (society) need it, to some degree.

This is such a wild take and would be so toxic to any organization.

Assuming you’re not trolling: you might be surprised to know that your colleagues are actually not, in fact, idiots, and will sniff this out.

For how many years do you suppose you will find it rewarding to fake your way from one thing to another? 5, 10, 20, your whole career?

My whole career. It has worked for quite a few years already without a hiccup.

What makes this strategy work is the quantity of technical incompetence that's present in nearly all workplaces. I am actually a liked employee (both by superiors and by colleagues), I just have a low tolerance for bullshit. Usually the problem is "the other way around", that is with people that follow processes, use proper corpspeak but don't actually produce much, and are trying to cover the low output with manners.

I've been writing code on and off since I was 8 years old. Of course not professionally :)

From an anecdata standpoint, I would say this describes the mentality of ~20% of my past colleagues, and it didn't particularly correlate with their productivity. Inversely, the not-faking-it true believers bring their own problems, like failing to recognize (and hedge against) the possibility that their managers are incompetent and untrustworthy.

From an ethical standpoint, this is no more toxic or false than the facades presented by many employers to their employees.

My take, as a developer and a manager: everyone sniffs this out. It's a well known marginal dev archetype. For now, this behavior can be compatible with stable employment, but the tension around accountability sets a ceiling in career advancement.

If we experience a white collar recession, the toxic players will have to reevaluate their behavior.

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