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Comment by malfist | Hacker News Reader

> But the real problem is that we move 2000+ kgs around to move a human of 80 kgs around.

Why is that a problem? If I want to visit my friend who lives 200 miles away, I'm not going to hop on a bike, or walk, or find a horse and buggie to take me there. Vehicles are not inherently evil. In fact they're a great enabler. Even if we take your example at face value and assume nobody travels beyond their city. How is that person who needs a wheelchair to get from point A to point B going to go a mile or two to the grocery store and get their groceries home?

The problem with cars is their carbon footprint, and EVs go a long way to solving that.

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2000kg+ EVs still have substantial lifecycle carbon footprints even if their local emissions are much lower than a gasoline car. They are certainly useful for 200 mile trips, especially with a group of people, with well-developed road networks & underdeveloped transit networks, but the relative development/utility of different transport networks is a political choice. And 200 mile trips are a small percentage of trips — most are short & local (with the specific radius of local generally depending on a locale's land use regulations).

EV lifecycle carbon footprints are much lower than a gasoline car's.

How often do you travel those 200 miles? Why can't you use a car share service for that one occasion? I'm not assuming people never travels beyond their city.

Why do car enablers always use people needing a wheelchair to push their agenda? If you're so concerned with their well being, wouldn't it be better if they got the roads for themselves and didn't get stuck in traffic and could always find parking close?

Or if they didn't need a car to travel miles to a grocery store but it was next door instead?

And no, the problems with cars are much greater than their carbon footprint. What about their area footprint for parking? The insane land used for roads? All the deaths? The pollution and micro plastics from their wheels? How children can't play outside in streets? How the streets instead of a nice neighborhood is just traffic? The noise?

And no, EVs doesn't solve much about the carbon footprint, not unless the energy is all green. It just moves it around.

the wheelchair argument is bs, I agree. every family does not need to have a car for the small fraction of wheelchair users to get to the store.

however, you are not going to connect with your audience when you say things like this:

> How often do you travel those 200 miles? Why can't you use a car share service for that one occasion? I'm not assuming people never travels beyond their city.

cars are not fungible. the driver's seat in my car is always in the right position for me, I'm familiar with all of its controls and weird quirks, and I don't need to reserve it. it's always ready for me in my garage at a moment's notice.

my point is: the only real advantage to your proposal is cost, and I would be willing to pay a lot more than I currently do to keep my car. it would take something more like Japan's train network for me to actually be enthusiastic about giving up my car.

But that is kinda my point, with how society is right now of course people want to keep their cars. I'm not talking about banning them. I want society to move in a direction where it's easier to not own a car, so people voluntarily prefer not to have their own.

I agree will all of the above points but the last is not really true, there is a concerted and clear agenda across the board to transition everything to electric and then use mostly wind and solar to power the grid (with already available solutions for energy storage due to fluctuations in wind/sun).

I don't see a lot of people really pushing for others to fundamentally change their habits and lifestyle (even getting people to eat less red meat is incredibly hard) and I think that's just because it's fundamentally harder to convince a large number of people to change their habits vs. a small number of dedicated people working towards green energy.

We should strive for both of these things together and share the same goal.

Funnily enough cars suck for people with wheelchairs compared to a specialty designed EV. Mostly due to the doors, lack of a ramp, misplaced steering column and an unnecessary chair.

Turning a wheelchair into a speedy electric vehicle is quite easy if not cheap. It's one wheel removed from an electric recumbent trike.

Exactly!

As can probably be gleaned from my posts here, I'm an activist working for better cycling and human transportation in how we do urban planning.

And one thing I often see, at least locally, is how those using a wheelchair or other amenities want better pedestrian infrastructure (or cycling infrastructure). Not car infrastructure. Many don't have the ability to drive, or the money for a special car. But a motorized tricycle, or an electric wheelchair using bicycle ramps works great.

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