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Comment by TheCapn | Hacker News Reader

I don't understand pirates that think downloading the content is a form of protest.

If you want to make a change and win then you have to think like your opponent. This is how the greedy suits think:

"Our product has sold X copies, but Y people downloaded it. That means there are X+Y people interested in my product! We must make it so X+Y people buy it and 0 download it!"

NO! Stop! Bad pirates! By downloading the product you're telling the company you want their offerings but are too lazy or greedy or whatever. Vote with your wallet and avoid the product! That way when the suit looks at his charts he can figure out why no one wanted the product in the first place. If his inbox is chock full of "drop the DRM" then maybe he'll consider it.

You are not making a stance by stealing it. You're reaffirming their decision to put on DRM and pass anti-piracy laws. You're giving them the excuse to invade your rights/privacy. Stop it.

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Stop with the disingenuous false dilemmas. A perfectly valid message is "we want what you offer on better terms". The actions strongly broadcast that message, perhaps better than just having an offering that doesn't sell.

If everyone keeps playing this stupid "there can be only 2 positions in any argument" game, we end up with posts like this - completely ignorant of a multitude of other options. Stop it and consider that this may not be binary.

My point isn't so much about how we go about things but more of a plea to have people work on their opponent's terms in order to win.

Each side on the issue is drawing their line in the sand but that line is too far from one another to ever reach a form of compromise or conclusion. There's this large valley between what the piracy community wants and what the industry is willing to give. Which side is willing to crack first? While pirates get their jollies there's still too much of a community of people that are paying for the products that keep industries afloat. Are we going to try and convert enough consumers to finally "hurt" the industry? Will that even be enough once the government tacks a law onto consumer products that goes towards the industry companies?

What about the "legal" approach. Is boycotting going to work? Is telling the companies the exact message you wrote going to change anything? Actions definitely speak louder than words but is pirating something going to send that message or will it send the message "we want what you offer"?

I agree with your statement that its not binary. Nothing is black and white in this situations. But the people vocally advocating piracy are doing no better where they say "my way or the highway".

I maybe shouldn't offer up too much opinion on the matter because there's evidence on both sides of the matter that show both progress and regression. On one hand we're seeing more services like netflix offering things on terms "pirates" want: convenient, accessible and quality. But on the other end we're seeing things like worse DRM and new bills. Have we really made progress or not?

That there can be other inferences from someone's behavior is not the question. They could infer from the acts of piracy many other possible reasons. However, the argument that the pro-censors are making is that they're losing money ("costing American jobs"). This is not really rational, but by pirating you do support their argument by being part of the numbers that, "would pay if forced."

Whereas if you chose from alternatives that conducted business on better terms than they would be forced to infer other reasons for losing money, such as, "we are losing money because we are assholes," and would not have the platform of lost sales to fool themselves or lobby politicians.

You are right technically. TheCapn is right politically.

While we may agree with you about the real reasons and motivations of the pirate, that isn't how corporations and governments look at things. I agree with TheCapn in how Big Media interprets it: theft, lost revenue.

There can be only 2 positions in a political argument, and yes, that breeds ignorance.

> You are not making a stance by stealing it.

Stop using theft as synonym for copyright violation. When someone copies a movie, they create a new copy. They don't take someone else's copy away.

Pretty sure stealing means to take without permission or right. Just because you don't take another person's copy away doesn't mean you had a right or permission to take a copy at all.

You didn't "take" a copy. You made one. Without permission, that's copyright violation, not theft.

Stop spreading confusion.

If you consume the product, you've achieved the same goal as if you had legally paid for it.

So if I break into a theater when it's closed and make a reel-to-reel copy of a movie with my own film stock, then I didn't just steal it?

Good to know.

No. You are guilty of the copyright violation and the break in. As long as you don't steal anything, it's not theft.

By downloading the product you're telling the company you want their offerings but are too lazy or greedy or whatever.

In most cases it says, "I want your content, but you are failing to provide it to me."

Look at Napster. People used it not because it was free, it was because there was no other choice. Once the music industry finally got around to approving iTunes, it became a huge and successful business for not only Apple, but the music industry too. If iTunes was available from day one, Napster would have never rose to fame.

Now look at the movie industry. I know of a lot of people who happily pay for Netflix and pirate content that is not on Netflix. If that content was on Netflix in the first place, the content owner would have received their money no questions asked.

There are some pirates who are plain cheap. But in most cases, it is just a power struggle. If you do not respect others, they will not respect you.

But at the same time, if I give my money to these corporations, then that is X more dollars going to lobby Congress for things like SOPA that take away my freedom. It is a vicious cycle.

Then don't give it AND don't pirate it. Problem solved.

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