Hacker News Reader

Comment by martin_a | Hacker News Reader

Great work to create this FrankenPad!

Besides that, Framework overall looks very promising to me.

I think they have a nice middle ground between DIY and "works out of the box". Yes, you can change parts if you want, but you don't need to fiddle for hours to get something going again. With enough money you have on-site repairs by big manufacturers, but if your IT guy can just swap the motherboard in 15 minutes with a spare one, that's even better I'd say.

I'd love to have a matte screen on their devices, though. That's something I really like on my ThinkPad. Besides that those devices look really good to me and my next device will probably be a Framework laptop.

Does anybody have negative experiences with those machines?

View on HN

> I think they have a nice middle ground between DIY and "works out of the box". Yes, you can change parts if you want, but you don't need to fiddle for hours to get something going again. With enough money you have on-site repairs by big manufacturers, but if your IT guy can just swap the motherboard in 15 minutes with a spare one, that's even better I'd say.

Framework owner here. It really is super freaking easy to open up this computer and fix things or swap them around. Easy enough for your average software engineer (who doesn't have much hardware experience), but probably easy enough for your average not-super-technically adept person.

On the whole, very happy with my machine. The touchpad wasn't registering all clicks when I first got it, but customer service happily sent me a new one and no issues since then. I also had a driver issue or two when I first got it, but that was resolved when I updated my drivers. I'd happily recommend the computer to any engineer or anyone with decent "techie" skills. It's probably not ready for your less-than-tech-savvy average consumer just yet, but it's close. Also, bonus points for the machine really looking and feeling very premium. I especially love the cover having the nice cog-wheel logo, but no brand name on it. I've had a few people tell me, "wow, that looks nice, what kind of computer is that?".

Great to hear that!

Can you tell me something about external displays? What's the most I can get out of it?

Right now I got one 4K display and one 1080p display but I'm looking into upgrading to two 4K displays. Is that supported by the graphics card?

I don't know. I regularly hook it up to two monitors (one 2560x1440 and one 1920-1200) at the same time (via a USB hub) with zero issues. Not sure how it would perform with two 4K. If you search around https://community.frame.work/, you'll most likely find your answer.

I have a friend who recently went through a very negative experidnmce with supprt team from Framework...

My friend is quite the hardware expert, and has built and fixed computers of all types for decades, and his hardware skills are second-to-none. He bought a framework laptop for his significant other several months ago - let's say somryhing like 5 or 6 months ago. The SO used the laptop, then had to use a diffeent machine for work...so left the Framework unplugged for about 1.5 ~ 2 months....so of course, the battery lost its charge. This is not the issue. Subsequently,. when my friend's SO retuned to start using the new machine again, it woulkd not start nor charge, etc. Hey, components fail for every hardware maker, so not a big deal. After many negative interactions between my friend and Framework support, it seems like there is a bug in hardware that Framework blamed on Intel compoenent which potentially can prevent from batteries charging....in addition, somehow it also inhibits computer from using it while connected to non-battery power...in other words, the computer is not able to be used at all. Here's the worser part, the Framework support team stated that even though the machine was well within warranty, because they blamed Intel, its not returnable nor refundable nor even somthing Framewokr was willing to swap out...So my friend and his SO are no stuck with no refund nor replacement, and an unsable computer. Their only recourse now is legal.

I'm sure there are other details that my friend did not inform me about. But if this is happening to others - the poor support from Framework team - then this is quite worrying indeed. I counted myself as a big fan of Framework, and i definitely was going to get myself one whenever i am due to get a new laptop...but after hearing this horrorible experience fro my friend, i will be hol;ding back from buying anything Framework related for quite some time.

@martin_a If you will be looking into Framework, please do whatever research you can into their returns/refunds policies. Also, I don;t know how to go about this, but: please research what other experieneces other folks have had with their support department. Good luck!

The issue of running down the CMOS battery is well documented, and I believe there are hardware-level alterations in their second revision that avoid it, both from Intel and from Framework altering their internals so the main battery can keep the CMOS battery charged.

My understanding of that problem is that it's not fatal or permanent: it's a "remove the battery and clear the CMOS" kind of situation that's required to get things working again. A case where it was really permanently unable to charge or operate and was within the warranty period, I don't know how a replacement/refund would be avoidable in that case.

Yep, clearing of cmos and other tasks were tried by my friend...As noted, he's got decades of experience on all sides of deep hardware support (including not only consumer but also very much on vendor side, etc.)...and yet Framework flatly refused any replacement, repair, or refund. Quite horribly disappointing.

Of course the plural of anecdote is not data but:

I also bought a framework for my SO, I was amazed by how easy it was to open up and work on and how much effort they went through to make it all cleanly modular and simple to service.

My SO has been using it daily for months and loves it. I love how easy it is to maintain it. It's a perfect laptop for us!

I love this thing to the extent that I feel an emotional need to defend it. Great hardware.

Good for you, and glad that you have not experienced the horrible state of affairs that my friend is now stuck in.

>Here's the worser part, the Framework support team stated that even though the machine was well within warranty, because they blamed Intel, its not returnable nor refundable

It is precisely for this reason that every PC I have bought has been a Dell with a 3 yr warranty and next-business-day Onsite service.

Chiming in with another Framework experience.

I've talked about it plenty on HN before but generally speaking my maxed-out Intel 11th Gen Framework has been the most regrettable large technology purchase of my life. Bugs like the one you've described are just the beginning. BTW, they did acknowledge their culpability in this somewhat and finally released a BIOS update for this issue in August of last year. However, that doesn't do you any good as you're already in your situation.

The BIOS alone clearly has many outstanding bugs and with the release of the Intel 12th Gen Frameworks the 11th Gen has been all but forgotten by Framework. Just looking at the list of issues they addressed in a recently announced[0] BIOS update for 12th Gen (no mention of 11th Gen) gives you an idea of the issues present (and more) in the 11th Gen.

For many of us our laptops are our tools for our livelihoods. As painful as it was to write-off a $2500 purchase I finally gave up, went out and bought a MacBook Pro at less than half the price, and have been infinitely happier since.

The lesson here is - hardware is hard and fundamental. Buying hardware from a startup is generally a bad idea.

[0] - https://frame.work/blog/framework-laptops-are-now-thunderbol...

That's painful, and I'm sorry you had to shell out more for yet another laptop.

Thanks, that is important information! I'll try to find some of the more problematic experiences.

I just ordered a Framework. It has not arrived yet. I am sure it is a fine machine, I am here to give some advice against FedEx delivery in Europe.

I got no notification by email or phone that they were coming yesterday. I was at work so of course I missed their call. I went the to FedEx tracking website, it said it had been rescheduled today, before noon was the expected delivery time and the website it should be there before 18h, again I was not notified but I was able to stay home today. Then past noon I noticed something odd, the package was still marked to be at the same spot as it was in the morning. So while it said it was being delivered today it also said that it was not in delivery state. So I called them. I got in touch with them, or rather a call center subcontractor where they can pay people shit, and I realized they didn't know more that I did. They confirmed it was weird and reschedule it for tomorrow... Is it going to be there tomorrow? I would not be so sure. I asked for proximity relay delivery so I don't have to wait home for the package and can't just pick it up at some nearby convenience store : It was possible... It would be there in 4 days.

To get updates from them you have to submit your names and email/phone it but they already have my it! I suspect they do that so that I can click that I agree with them using my personal data.

Also the website is very heavy and no I don't want a shitty app on my phone to be able to track a package.

So Framework if you read me please to using FedEx shitty service and use a relay delivery system, it's better for the planet too. It is stupidly inefficient to have a truck running around people homes in working days.

My advice to Framework buyers : Call FedEx immediately and ask for relay delivery or whatever it's called

Reply on news.ycombinator.com