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Comment by Utkarsh_Mood | Hacker News Reader

Definitely agree with this article, Im a teenager(17M) who doesn't keep a smartphone(shocker, I know) and the frequency with which my friends bring its usage into conversation is definitely frustrating and awkward at times. A lot of people basically now gauge the worth of others by the followers they have and it’s ridiculous. Then there’s also the hate accounts being made to target other individuals on Instagram and the like. Social media really has made people more shallow in my opinion and reduced the chance of actually having meaningful conversations with friends.

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> A lot of people basically now gauge the worth of others by the followers they have and it’s ridiculous.

Kids measuring popularity is as old as kids. So don't take this as something unique or new.

> Social media really has made people more shallow in my opinion and reduced the chance of actually having meaningful conversations with friends.

I didn't grow up with a cell phone and kids in HS were incredibly shallow in general. Does someone have a car? What shoes are they wearing? How are their jeans rolled (or whatever stupid thing we did back then)? What about their haircut? The list goes on.

> Then there’s also the hate accounts being made to target other individuals on Instagram and the like.

This is the big change today. Pre-social media when kids left school, they could leave what for many was a very challenging environment. Now it follows them everywhere they go, 24/7. I was teased a lot and made fun of as a kid, but going home each day with neighborhood friends who knew me was my safe space. Nowadays that space just doesn't seem to exist.

> A lot of people basically now gauge the worth of others by the followers they have and it’s ridiculous

When I was a teenager in the 90s I had a classmate tell me he "can't be friends with me because I don't have Nikes". These kind of popularity/status things amongst teenagers are nothing new; its just the measures of it that change. Teenagers can be horrible human beings. Its one of the reasons some countries have school uniforms (I don't know whether that actually helps).

Sure, but you didn't require Nikes to be kept in the loop with socializing with most of your peers. You could find plenty of people to hang out with that didn't require your wear Nikes. But there aren't a lot of people who are into the idea of limiting themselves to a small subset of available communication methods. All your friends are in a group chat and that's where the conversation is happening most of the time.

Not to mention the classic style of dating doesn't really exist any more. Now it requires a bunch of getting to know each other outside of dates through texting. Maybe you can find someone who isn't into that, but good luck. You've cut out most of your options, not to mention - where are you supposed to find this person? An online community for people who don't go online as much?

Yes, I agree; I've made similar comments before. I was only replying to "gauge the worth of others by the followers they have", and not giving a full essay on my thoughts about every aspect.

>When I was a teenager in the 90s I had a classmate tell me he "can't be friends with me because I don't have Nikes".

Wow that is an insane level of pretentiousness. Probably dodged a bullet there.

>Its one of the reasons some countries have school uniforms

Most schools do have uniforms here, honestly it doesn't really matter that much, teenagers (can and will) find another way to show off.

can you share what made you drop the smartphone? I wish my kids were like you and would like to push them in this direction

> can you share what made you drop the smartphone?

Sure, there were a few factors that made me not keep one:

Firstly, I’ve never been that active on social media platforms such as Instagram, Snapchat etc. I did have an account for a short period of time, but I noticed there’s really not much of value Im missing out on. 99% of teenage group chats are about teenage crushes and general high school drama which isn’t something Im much interested in. Ditching the smartphone thus didn’t really affect my communication with my friends.(I might have missed out on the popular kids parties though :P)

Then there’s also the problem that I found myself getting distracted and procrastinating on school-work which was affecting my productivity.

It wasn't an easy and I did have withdrawal symptoms initially, but I do think I'm able to focus more now for longer intervals and more ‘present’. I did receive a lot of derision from my friends, though.

>I wish my kids were like you and would like to push them in this direction

You could maybe talk to them about whether they think it’s having a negative impact on them and what do they think they can to do reduce it. If its not mutually agreed upon it will be difficult to work on it.

> You could maybe talk to them about whether they think it’s having a negative impact on them and what do they think they can to do reduce it. If its not mutually agreed upon it will be difficult to work on it.

Are you sure you're 17 haha? You sound more mature than many adults.

I got told this a lot when I was 15. It doesn't seem to take much for a teenager to sound more mature than many adults. :)

It does not…

Thanks! probably a consequence of hanging out on HN :P

It’s your job. You don’t “push” your kids. You instruct them, set expectations, and enforce the expected behavior.

General advice for kids and phones:

- no phones before 12 yr old

- shared phones between 12-16 (with other siblings or the “house” cell phone that also can be used by parents)

- own phone once 16 to acclimate them to healthy use while under your roof.

- a phone box for everyone in the household that gets used between 6-10pm every day (eg phone lives in the box, can still be checked if rings but then goes back in box not pocket)

- punishments that involve loss of phone privileges. This should follow the “x7 rule” where the punishment is much more severe than the disobedience (eg don’t listen to parent, 3 days without phone)

- model good behavior yourself. No phone out when your kids are around.

>shared phones between 12-16 (with other siblings or the “house” cell phone that also can be used by parents)

lol good luck trying to enforce that when almost every 12 year old kid has their own smartphone today. 'Your' kid will most certainly feel left-out,different and noticed and will be commented on by their friends.

> model good behavior yourself. No phone out when your kids are around.

Yeah I dont think this is a really effective way to go about this, sure I get your point, but parents(or adults in general), have way more responsibilities and pressing matters to attend to. Not saying thats always the case, but its an apples to oranges comparison here.

Liked your other comments but this one was disappointing. Kids would eat ice cream for all meals if you let them. But they don’t because parents say no. “Lol good luck… other kids” is not an appropriate response to that duty.

That said, the lockbox part is not practical I think. More workable is to avoid data plans and use screen time/cut wifi outside core hours.

> model good behavior yourself. No phone out when your kids are around.

This is probably the most important part (and the hardest, for a lot of people).

How does a consequence that's deliberately disproportionate to what they've done teach children anything? Are you trying to prepare your children for the world, or to ensure they correspond to some ideal you have imagined?

> punishments that involve loss of phone privileges. This should follow the “x7 rule” where the punishment is much more severe than the disobedience (eg don’t listen to parent, 3 days without phone)

I'm a strict parent, but... what?

This is a thing. I grew up in a conservative Christian family and saw some of this. For some families (not mine) punishment was considered the primary tool of teaching. As the Bible says: spare the rod, spoil the child.

What most people don't seem to know is the "rod" isn't something you're supposed to hit a sheep with. You nudge and guide them with it.

Good points, I'd add since a lot of kids these days have technology in general and are incorporating in some schooling and such you can add a device for single-purpose use, i.e iPad for reading, watching, demo-ing, etc. with structured timing like phone box, shared times, etc.

You've described child abuse.

Not giving unrestricted access to a smartphone to a child is child abuse? GTFO.

It's not about a smartphone, you're welcome.

I like the idea of just meeting up more. If I have no phone then that’s the only way to go.

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