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Comment by AshamedCaptain | Hacker News Reader

Every couple of weeks Windows shows a FULL SCREEN advertisement during boot/login which requires several clicks to get rid of. They advertise everything starting from Microsoft Accounts, OneDrive, MS Edge ( https://www.windowslatest.com/2020/11/15/windows-10-is-now-n... ) , Windows 11 ( https://mspoweruser.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/167013949... ) , and a long etc.

This is not a small advert in a small corner of the start menu. These are full-screen adverts that interrupt your use of the computer until you click.

What on Earth could they possibly do now to top that ?

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For me, it was worse. It happened every time I booted Windows because I only used it occasionally to play games.

After I select Windows in the boot menu, I'd spend like ten minutes waiting for Windows Update to complete. Then I have to click through a series of full screen ads and prompts to disable my privacy settings, which is getting increasingly difficult with all the dark patterns thrown in after every new release. It really shows a lack of respect for the user, taking my computer hostage while I resist their attempts to enable numerous privacy-invading settings that I declined over and over and over.

Over the years, this made me distrust Windows so much that I removed anything critical off of it. I removed my password manager, deleted my browsing data, and made sure to remove anything tied to an online account except Steam.

Then I finally had enough and moved my games over to Linux. So far, the experience is good and I'm glad that WINE is going through active improvements.

I also use Windows occasionally to launch a single game. My experience is the same as yours. All sorts of nags that have nothing to do with launching a single game. Every update either breaks stuff, changes settings, or adds ads somewhere.

I return to my main Mac after 2 months on the road, and nothing has changed. It boots right up, and might occasionally ask me if I want to install updates in the evening.

I bought another Mac recently. I didn't have to turn a bunch of things off. I wasn't tricked into accepting anything. By comparison it took me a whole day to update my Surface tablet and turn off all manners of growth hacking before I returned it.

If someone behaved like Microsoft does, I'd keep an eye on my drink when they're around.

In my limited experience with VMs, I have found that it's easier to skip it if you disconnect your internet before booting windows. It doesn't remove it completely, but it can save a few clicks. The page where they try to force you to connect a Windows account can be very hard to bypass sometimes with internet access.

It also infuriates me that they won't let you actually say no. It's always "remind me later" or "skip for now" or "try again in 3 days".

What has gotten into the minds of these people? Why do they think this is at all acceptable?

> Why do they think this is at all acceptable?

You're still a Windows user, aren't you? (No judgement, just answering the question!)

Microsoft has 95% of the desktop OS market, they can abuse their users with impunity until that number starts to go down.

it's down into the 75% range now and is continuing to drop

https://www.statista.com/statistics/218089/global-market-sha...

(reminds me of the IE market share graph actually)

I think that includes laptops, where macOS is very popular? For gaming, at least, Steam's stats show 96% Windows.

Here's the relevant Steam Hardware & Software Survey link: https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey

For convenience:

  Windows 96.37%
  OSX 2.37%
  Linux 1.27%

Gaming wise, that's pretty dire. Proton is pretty nice on Linux, but still doesn't and probably never will support all of the titles that people might want to play. In addition, I doubt many companies out there want to test their game releases on multiple OSes and try to fix all of the bugs if they can even port the games, all for less than 4% increased profits.

I am hoping Steam Deck will change the Linux calculus. I play a lot of games on Linux now because of my deck! Haven’t turned on the Windows machine in a year or so.

Already has if you count the unknown portion (which are unrecognized Linux distros). The Steam Deck is perhaps using some funky user agent that isn't recognized according to this: https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/desktop/worldwide

I'm not just counting Steam's survey. This tells me more: https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/desktop/worldwide

And from the looks of things, Windows is on the decline. Linux and Mac are actually beginning to rise. Unknown are generally unknown Linux distros, and then there is ChromeOS and the recognized Linux distros. Together, that makes Linux about 13%

I recall that the IE market share graph behaves like a lagging indicator with significant momentum mass - alternative browsers were technically better and it took years for IE to bleed down the market share. Microsoft needs to be careful with Windows as losing market share is hard to stop/reverse.

Does that include pirated copies?

https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/desktop/worldwide

According to that, Windows' world wide market share is now under 70%. It lost 6% in the past few months starting in December.

A lot of this I find have to do with Valve pushing for Linux gaming. And there is also ChromeOS too (which is Linux). Then there is the unknown portion (which are mostly unrecognized Linux distros). That altogether makes Linux about 13%.

Really, it's the end of an era were Windows is actually relevant for the majority of PC gaming. And with people hating Windows more these days, they are weighing their options from the looks of it.

Well I'm not anymore. Didn't think I would ever leave windows, been using it since 3.1 but sometime in middle of windows 10 I finally got fed up and set up dual boot Linux and some months later found myself not having booted the windows side at all. My current laptop (second hand) doesn't have windows on it at all except the sticker that I should probably peel off.

I haven't touched windows 11 at all beyond some idle poking of a display computer at Costco.

Many apps have become user hostile in the past years, including social media and even our software-driven vehicles...

It's a very stressful thing to deal with, and congress does nothing to stop it because they're too busy trading stock investment info for insider profit...

We are not totally powerless though, hacking and warez are on the rise again, lots of people are declining updates, and even returning to older software versions, and nothing has ever stopped us from creating a good old-fashioned picket line in front of Microsoft HQ, or any other predatory software making company for that matter.

Their incentives are off. They get a bonus for implementing customer-hostile features, and don't lose anything if the users hate it.

They assume you will take it and continue using Windows. They appear to have assumed correctly.

I don't see why it's "not acceptable" at all. Why shouldn't they treat users this way? They can make more money with all these annoyances, and the people who hate it are just going to complain on internet forums and keep using Windows anyway. Seems like a good business strategy to me. Any time a business is in a position where they can abuse their customers endlessly and the customers will refuse to leave, it would be a breach of fiduciary duty not to abuse them for more profit.

>"try again in 3 days"

That prompt never comes back for me in 3 days though. Just at the next major OS update about every ~3 months.

An easily accessible option of “never” is probably more reckless. My MIL would always pick never and at the same time expect that her PC is fully protected.

That said there should be a setting for savvy users or enterprises to disable updates.

The ads typically shown this way rarely related to security. It's usually something that Microsoft wants the user to "agree" to. It's basically physiological coercion.

Each one of those ads is a free ad for Apple and Linux. “If you had Apple, you wouldn’t have to endure this!”

I wish Apple was actually good in that regard. I ended up uninstalling Apple Stocks app from my Mac and iPhone because of all the terrible ads. The ads I saw were even worse than this:

https://images.app.goo.gl/dVbDoBuScVzp3uAg9

wtf, i have never seen any add in ios including stock app

I think that's in the Apple News "Business News" section at the bottom. I'd never noticed it before myself.

You never looked in settings?

If the worst problem you have is ads in your stocks app, it sounds like Apple is still coming out way ahead. I agree that they're squandering brand value for what must be a very marginal gain though

> it sounds like Apple is still coming out way ahead

I disagree for three reasons:

1. Apple Ads are incessant about their own services. Why is (or was?) not having iCloud set up showing up as a permanent notification badge over Settings? It was a while ago, but I remember I subscribed just to shut iOS up. It worked for Apple I guess, but only in a shortsighted way.

2. Ads are big business. Microsoft didn't start with shameless ads, and I don't think Apple would stop at current ad levels. They have to show growth quarter after quarter, so in all likelihood, like we have seen with other companies, it's only gonna get worse. I would love to be proven wrong, but I would also be surprised if I do.

3. The gap between "no ad" and "low ad" feels much bigger the gap between "low ad" and "more ad". Just replace Apple and Microsoft with Netflix and imagine how we would feel if Netflix started showing some—not too many and not too outrageous—ads. For me at least, it moves the service from the "no ad" category to the "with ad" category, and I hate the latter category. So at least in my view, the gap between Apple and Microsoft in this regard is not "way ahead", it is "slightly ahead and getting closer". So while I would be happy to spend an extra X$ for a "no ad" product compared to a "with ad" product, I wouldn't feel the same about a "low ad" product. The Apple premium makes much less sense now, and I am not sure if I am gonna go with Apple for my next phone or computer purchase.

What the actual f? Good thing I don't live in a very high ARPU area. That insulates you from a surprising amount of crazy stuff. I mean, just not living in US/UK will get you quite far.

I saw this coming a few months ago and had the same reaction.

I was already in the market for a new PC. I'm just finalizing what version of Linux I want to run for my dev work and then I'm going to offload my Adobe work onto a Mac Mini and finally get rid of Windows once and for all.

Each one of those ads is a free ad for Apple and Linux. “If you had Apple, you wouldn’t have to endure this!”

In an ideal world, it would push people toward real life.

"Another ad on my computer? I don't need to Candy Crush that bad. I'll go outside."

Outside is boring and, compared to pc gaming, expensive. You have to drive to get anywhere interesting (expensive), there are parking and entrance and camping fees, tourists, and the view is mostly the same as the last twelve times.

Sports leagues are expensive, time consuming, and prone to serious injuries you’ll be feeling for decades (and expensive too).

And then there’s the short and long term costs associated with long term exposure to the sun.

Granted, I’m cherry picking negatives. But by that same token, so is equivocating PC gaming with Candy Crush.

No regrets.

Outside is boring and, compared to pc gaming, expensive

I feel very sad for you.

>You have to drive to get anywhere interesting (expensive)

Only in America. Thankfully, 95% of the world's population lives somewhere else.

I was about the say the same. Moved out of the US five years ago. I can hop on bike and be at a national forest in 10 minutes, taking nothing but dedicated bike roads.

Search settings for “finish setting up” and uncheck.

https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/windows-10/why-am-i-g...

This kinda of user-hostile malware is very frustrating, as many of platforms Microsoft creates I find quite pleasent technically. However some small hoard of product managers and growth engineers chasing their metrics are ruining Windows.

>What on Earth could they possibly do now to top that ?

Autoplaying videos with sound

That auto pause if your eyes look away.

Funny you say that. Have you noticed how yourube adverts now pause when you scroll into comments?

My YT Vanced recently broke. So I reinstalled stock YT and my god the ads are baaaaaaad. How do people put up with it? Using newpipe now.

with VR/AR, there is no place to look away ;)

With eye tracking they will be able to determine your interest level to allow additional targeted advertising of things that you eye lingers on. If you saw an alcohol ad and lingered on it because you're a recovering alcoholic they'll know to really ramp up the ads on that since they've identified you as having a weakness to them. Maybe they'll even use iris scans or databases of eye movement patterns to identify you as an individual for even better user tracking.

DRINK VERIFICATION CAN

Related: https://xkcd.com/1305/

Is that a real thing though? One of the more intriguing xkcds I've seen.

If there were such a place - a sanctuary of sanity in the midst of the madness and chaos that is the current internet...

...do you think anyone who knew anything about it would breathe a word of its existence?

Hi there, I'm Cortana ;)

This also happens to a machine that's left on overnight. Something Happens and it reboots - I lose my RDP connection - to this awful dialog.

What grinds my gears is the scheduled waking from sleep to check for updates. And then it often doesn't go back to sleep afterwards for some reason.

Oh! And if you go into the task scheduler to hunt down the half dozen different places this function is called from, they just get turned back on with the next update.

I actually set up a scheduled task that runs every 5 minutes (maybe overkill, but I didn't know with what frequency they get reenabled) to make sure any task that can wake my computer from sleep is turned off.

I got so tired of Windows turning on my computer in the middle of the night, checking for updates (but never actually applying any) to apply updates, and then leaving it on all night afterwards, like WTF.

Now there's an idea!

windows update blocker did the trick for me. Updater is finally disabled for good

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patch_Tuesday been a thing for 20 years.

Reboot Blocker solves this.

Why stop there? Maybe the next version of Teams, will have commercial breaks during your daily stand-up? ... Microsoft is making 2023 the year of the Linux Desktop. :-)

In Settings>System>Notifications> go to the bottom and expand the last row. In it there's an option to Show you ways to improve something something. Uncheck that.

I’ve literally never seen this on any of the Windows machines in my household.

start making them into onboarding installs is one think off the top of my head.

This only happens when Windows has a major updaye, usually overnight if you leave your PC on. On the next startup you're always greeted with a full screen overview of new features, setup, etc.

another poster told be about windows update blocker.

Now i don't have to be afraid to go to sleep at night...

Perhaps require acknowledging an ad to open or save a document? With full OS integration and demonstrated willingness to expose any user to advertising, the possibilities are numerous.

They should require users to watch several ads, and then pass a quiz asking about things in the ads, before saving a document.

Earn key strokes by ad-clicks…

To their defense, if even Apple gets away with it...

Never seen this. May I recommend win aero tweaker?

Strange, I have never seen those ads. Are they restricted to the Home editions? I use Enterprise.

It's on Professional as well.

I'm on professional and while I have seen this after a major update, it's definitely not every couple of weeks. Maybe once a year.

And yet HN still gives me grief for my deliberate choice not to 'upgrade' Windows 7.

I had this and I could either summon Task Manager through Ctrl-Shift-Esc or Alt-Tab out of it.

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