Comment by civilized | Hacker News Reader

Comment by civilized | Hacker News Reader

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I accompanied my wife to a conference in SF a few years ago. While walking along Market Street, returning to our hotel from picking up food for the kids, one of those dishevelled guys with big coats ran at me full tilt. I was forced to run across the middle of the street into traffic to get away from him. He pursued me, pulling out a gun and pointing it at me midway across the street. After I got across the street he gave up and went back to his side.

I think the gun was probably a toy, but the only reason I think that is because he didn't fire it. It was small, but gunmetal colored and realistic. Now, I feel like I could have just as easily been Bob Lee, and my kids could have just as easily lost their father. For nothing more than flying in for a weekend and walking along a main thoroughfare.

It seems like this story is completely unremarkable in SF. Nobody in the vicinity seemed to care what was happening to me. It was obvious there was no point in calling 911 to report this. Apparently it's just normal that you take your life into your hands walking along Market Street, and some resident mentally ill guy might decide to end you because he doesn't like your face.

I’ve often wondered if the above is part of the reason we have so many tech delivery companies - hire someone else to take the risk for that burger for you.

Wow. Had not thought of that.

I think you may be correct! Feels right out of black mirror/etc

I'm sure that you can even argue it's a win/win! The poor doordasher probably has encountered situations multiple times a month, and can recognize them and avoid them, whereas the untrained rich person may not have the same "street smarts".

And you could get dark real quick when you realize that for many a dead doordasher is a statistic, but a dead rich man is a tragedy.

(Even if all above is true, it still would sicken me)

Easily. Whenever I feel a hanking for good Yemeni (Yemen Kitchen) or Mizrahi (Limonana) food, I just order via Doordash because there's no way I'm walking on 6th or lower Jones.

For contrast, in many parts of Texas, that man assaulting you would have been dead.

People may not like it, but reality isn't some idealized abstract notion. Knowing what is good requires you to look carefully at what is.

I'm not sure what you mean here. Looking carefully at what is, in most of the world, this wouldn't have happened in the first place. The Texas solution doesn't sound much better than the SF situation to me.

Watch what you did there. I made a narrow claim:

"Rather then the innocent being killed, the person who did the assault would be killed. This is preferable."

You chose to interpret this as a very different claim. Yes, an effective good police force and a population that doesn't assault others is essential. There is not one single part of a solution that should stand alone.

I stand by my above truth claim. Don't put other words into my mouth.

Didn't mean to put words in your mouth - I actually found your wording very hard to parse, which is why I said I wasn't sure what you meant. I agree that the Texas solution is likely a local maximum. Sounds like we both agree it's not a global maximum.

Being able to defend yourself during an assault has nothing to do with "a solution". It just means in a moment when the clock is ticking, it is more likely an innocent life is saved. Nothing I said implied this being "a solution". Texas isn't the wild west. We have laws and police. Self defense is just a thing that helps preserve innocent life when laws are disregarded and police are not present.

On another timeline (in Texas), a case of possible short term mistaken identity ended up with a person being killed, when the alternative was one party retreating, which bought both parties enough time to avoid injury or a death.

More likely? Seems to cause a lot of issues with "trigger-happy" folks too...

Like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7shU6sLy0c

He said he didn't understand what you meant in his first sentence.

Your quoted text is also not what you posted.

Can you give some evidence to support that assertion?

I would love to see statistics on the number of assaults that were stopped because the defender had a gun.

Comparing Texas to a single city isn't really the most honest thing to do.

Texas has a higher gun HOMICIDE rate than California, per-capita, btw. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/firearm_mortality/...

Unsure what you're really trying to solve!

So a (probably) psychlogically ill/troubled person with a (probably) fake gun would have been shot dead by some random passer-by? In what way is that better than the traumatic situation that the op described?

Yes. Stop making excuses.

This is assault and must not be tolerated. I do not know your inner feelings and I do not know if the gun is fake or even loaded. It is still assault. If you think an ill/troubled person is not capable of being out in society then they need to be locked up or kept under supervision.

If I applied your logic to times I ride my bicycle on the road, I would have at this point fired upon... many tens of cars.

I find your take to be relatively sociopathic and bloodthirsty. It doesn't sound like it makes for a good society to live in. It kinda sounds like Somalia or something.

That person would be a clear and imminent threat. It's completely irrelevant whether they're of sound mind or whether the realistic-looking gun is, in fact, real or not.

They won’t be terrorizing anyone else for starters.

Add this to the list of reasons why I refuse to live or work in San Francisco. I screenshotted your comment and shared it with my family.

I know this is anecdata, I know the article we're discussing lends itself to these kinds of stories, and I know there're a lot of positives in SF, too; but there comes a point at which the negatives outweigh the positives by severity, regardless of relative quantity. SF is past that point for me.

You are in danger as a pedestrian always near traffic

Social cohesion breaks down near congested roads

You can tell if you are in one of those areas by asking yourself Would you let your young child move through this area unattended? If not - you're in an area built for cars first and not for you as a pedestrian

I was almost mugged and stabbed in Santa Fe. Same thing. Apparently crime is under reported there by the media.

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