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Comment by WJW | Hacker News Reader

God is not going to smite you for oath-breaking either though. What matters is that you keep your promise to (in this case) society, not whether you swear it on any book in particular. If the law requires the promise to be sworn over a book because the lawmakers at the time were religionists, you might as well choose a book you think represents your values.

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Well no, God apparently hasn't done that since the Old Testament, but some Christians certainly do believe that breaking an oath you swore on the Bible will have certain repercussions for you in the afterlife...

And apparently the new NASA director is not a Christian, so what that group believes is not so relevant to this discussion.

I don’t think you’re following the argument, which is that swearing an oath over something like Sagans book doesn’t mean as much because the person making the oath doesn’t believe Sagan will hold them accountable.

I follow the argument just fine, but it's fallacious. You should keep your word because it is the right thing to do, not because some invisible boogeyman will toss you into hellfire if you don't. If someone can't be motivated to serve the public good without the background threat of eternal damnation, perhaps they are not mature enough yet to be appointed director of NASA.

But the person swearing the oath doesn't believe in gods, so swearing on any of them will mean much less to them.

If the only reason to do it is because the people around them will hold their oath in higher regard - shouldn't they swear on a stack of all religious texts, and on all gods?

What I keep thinking of following this is from Matthew 5:

> Again, you have heard that it was said to the ancients, ‘Do not break your oath, but fulfill your vows to the Lord.’ 34But I tell you not to swear at all: either by heaven, for it is God’s throne; 35or by the earth, for it is His footstool; or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King...

Implying that even in a religious context, one might swear on "one's mother's grave"in the metaphorical sense. So then I think there must be a natural and historical reverence to oaths in general, which sends my mind down more Neil Gaiman-ish paths. I would bet that the significance of an Oath is older than every extant religion.

The point is there is a belief in a consequence for lying to God. Whether or not there is an actual consequence is irrelevant.

Furthermore, you can’t prove what happens after you die. I mean you may very well be right, but it’s just your personal belief.

Based on my interpretation of the Pale Blue Dot someone swearing to it would most likely be trying to convey a belief in consequences that occur regardless of the existence of a supreme being.

That is a belief in personal responsibility not motivated by fear of punishment by a supreme being.

This quote from Sagan convey's that meaning among others IMO:

It has been said that astronomy is a humbling and character-building experience. There is perhaps no better demonstration of the folly of human conceits than this distant image of our tiny world. To me, it underscores our responsibility to deal more kindly with one another, and to preserve and cherish the pale blue dot, the only home we've ever known.

Also see

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_Kohlberg%27s_stages_o...

Where fear of gods punishement would be at the lowest level.

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