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Comment by Night_Thastus | Hacker News Reader

People seem to misunderstand why the metaverse was pushed so hard. Meta isn't stupid and was doing it for a good reason.

It all comes back to how Meta makes its money - data collection.

Facebook is in a really tricky position right now. They don't control the hardware or OS that it runs on, or the app stores. That means that at any time, Apple or Google can screw them over and deny Facebook from collecting data.

However, what if they had their own hardware (Oculus) running their own OS? Then, they could collect as much data as they wanted without any interference from Google or Apple. That means significantly more profit! There's no way in hell they're going to break into the mobile phone market, so VR was their best option.

That's why they pushed VR so hard. They need it to work because otherwise they have no control over their main source of income, and the squeeze on them is getting tighter ever day.

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The squeeze is getting tighter because mass data collection of the world population is perhaps a very questionable and ethically wrong business model for a private company and instead of developing the "Metaverse" which would make it even easier maybe Facebook should have looked at opportunities to turn their users into paying customers by providing valuable products and features that are worth paying for. The way you describe it is as if they have their hands tied together and because ad revenue was their initial model to success it means they cannot ever have any other profit model anymore, but I think that is wrong and that's where they've made a mistake.

It certainly does make you wonder which Meta execs believed that all of Facebook's ethical, legal, and political problems somehow "vanish" just because they've added an extra dimension and are trying to do "Facebook, Now in 3D". It feels like playground naivety by children that there's that much difference in real world consequences between scrolling Facebook on a 2D plane and scrolling it in 3D instead. "We'll just escape our pursuers and hard problems by jumping into 3D! Woo!" said the kids imagining the park slide was a rocket ship. It's such a bizarre response to "our current business model is breaking down and we are having a hard time with regulators, politicians, and trust from the general public".

Google has the same data-slurping business model, they just aren't quite as big dicks about it as Facebook.

not sure i agree that google isn't as big of a dick about it, in ways i would say they're worse

I agree 100% that was the strategic motivation.

It still doesn't change the fact that it was a dumb decision. Facebook would have been much better off simply accepting that they couldn't control the hardware or OS or app stores and continue to do the best they could within those constraints.

Instead they just threw away a ton of money that could have gone to shareholders and employees instead.

What business would have accepted that their primary revenue stream is 100% in the control of other companies, and is shrinking? Of course they can't accept that.

If things continue as they do, the whole company will collapse. Better to throw whatever they have at a solution than to just lie down and die.

> Of course they can't accept that.

Companies accept that all the time. It's far more profitable to slash investment and turn something into a cash cow over the next 10-15 years than bet the farm and lose. It's actually in shareholders' interest -- which is why so many shareholders have been upset about the VR pivot.

Right, cutting R&D spend and upping dividends or buybacks is a totally normal thing that companies do all the time. It's just not nearly as sexy as changing the world or whatever Zuck says he's doing.

He was only able to pursue his metaverse vision because he has shareholder control, and given the change in stock price it looks like increasing numbers of investors are no longer interested in a company he has total control over.

You make it sound like the metaverse was the only possible thing they could try, which couldn't be further from the truth. There are hundreds of areas where those billions could have been invested with a shot of developing something real. LLMs for instance! Or they might have discovered whatever the next big hyped technology will be. Burning it on their metaverse was a laughable idea at the time and has failed even faster than many expected.

> Of course they can't accept that.

If that's true, then they're doomed.

Their real problem is that their entire business model is in danger. What they should be throwing their money at is changing their business model, not trying to invent a new field to apply it in.

This is the only reason I will support Tik Tok because it’s the only real competition to FB and Instagram, shrinking their moat as each day passes.

I understand why they wanted to pivot.

But you can't will something into existence, and that’s why Meta’s approach was baffling.

> There's no way in hell they're going to break into the mobile phone market, so VR was their best option.

They even tried to break into the mobile phone market at one point back in 2013. Then apple made it's privacy changes and now Google has said they will do something similar on their platform. I think you're right that Facebook got desperate to find a platform they can control.

Remember when they tried giving free internet away in India, they are diabolically sleazy, trying to exploit the next billions of humans coming online in exchange for harvesting their data and monetizing it to the highest bidders.

Err... as much I'd like to have a VR headset and use it, I simply can't.

I don't have time to immerse myself in the environment where I don't see the reality that surrounds me (as in, people which share my public transport, cars that stop at the traffic lights next to me, my kids running around me, people I work with, etc.). It's not that I need the reality, but I can't disconnect safely. Facebook is easy. Just reach the pocket, get the phone, a few swipes and you are using it. Be it in the office, around your kids, in the waiting room, ...

I don't see how VR can provide you a FB scale of users.

Don’t give them any ideas

> It all comes back to how Meta makes its money - data collection.

They make their money selling ads _using_ that data.

None of that does a thing to make people actually want to use the product though. Nobody wants to strap a VR set to their head because it would be good for Facebook. I get why they want that to be true, but spending immense amounts of money trying to force it to be true has been a stupid waste.

That maybe a factor but it's also possible the attention economy is peaking. We always knew attention available is fixed.

Google and Apple have reported slight slow down. Smartphone market in the west has saturated and not growing. Ppl have so many other options where they can spend their time online. Its possible everyone is seeing less ad revenue.

Yeah it’s about control. They should have launched their own phones, hardware and OS, which waaay more people would use than VR.

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