Hacker News Reader

Comment by margotleong | Hacker News Reader

Good point! My understanding, from speaking with the SlideRocket team, is that it's kosher to use another artist's song as your presentation soundtrack as long as you attribute the song in your presentation somewhere. But if I were doing a similar project in the future, I'd absolutely love to work with a musician to record something - that's a terrific suggestion.

EDIT: Just spoke directly with a representative at SlideRocket, Sogol Motiey, who says, "Nope! No copyright issues."

View on HN

Pretty sure that's totally not true, but, boy would I ever like to be proven wrong about this. As I understand it, and excuse the language, but attribution has fuck-all to do with the rights to music.

There's a whole market for "royalty-free music" (all of which costs money, but at least doesn't cost money per view) that exists entirely --- again, as I understand it --- because you can't just use random copyrighted songs in presentations, on websites, &c.

Sliderocket even links to some of these sites on an article about adding audio to presentations:

http://www.sliderocket.com/blog/2010/07/incredible-presentat...

Note conspicuous lack of "and if you like Apples In Stereo, just drag an MP3 into this window and make sure to say thank you in your presentation". :)

In any case, so I don't sound too much like a message-board-crazy, let me at least commend you on your taste in music. At least it wasn't Ke$ha.

This might be a good place to get started: http://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/Copyright

Here's some more on "Fair Use": http://www.benedict.com/Info/FairUse/FairUse.aspx

A very good source on fair use:

http://fairuse.stanford.edu/Copyright_and_Fair_Use_Overview/...

Note the "four factors" in fair use:

* The extent to which the use transforms the original work

* The nature of the work being used

* The amount and substantiality of the use

* The effect of the use on the market

I'm pretty sure soundtracking your resume with almost the entirety of a signed band's most popular track flunks all these tests --- charming though that resume is.

I'm actually not at all concerned about musical resumes --- seriously, does Britt Daniel care about resumes? Of course he doesn't --- so much as the mentality at startups that this stuff is always going to be kosher. Not so. HN just got finished shellacking a different YC company over this exact issue.

Be careful about music, is all I'm really saying.

You're correct that this would fail a fair-use test. Once it went up on a blog it's akin to a public performance, and use of the master recording should be licensed.

It is improbable that someone is going to issue a DMCA letter because of this, but it does (to your point) outline a couple of problems in S.V., one of which is the misconception that "It's not stealing if you attribute the artist" is widespread. And incorrect, at least for anything (c)All Rights Reserved.

If in doubt, it's a good idea for startups to consult their attorney (and not the PM, or lead engineer, or friend-in-a-band) when in doubt when using music, art, or what-have-you in public fora.

So am I crazy or did whoever this person talk to at Sliderocket give her ludicrously bad advice?

tonecluser responded to the wrong person, but you're both right - that was very bad advice. There are definite copyright problems here.

Even if they could win this in court (which they probably couldn't), it's certainly not so cut and dry that anyone would just say 'nope, no problems, carry on' and be done with it.

Isn't that weird? Don't you guys have performance rights separate from copy rights?

I mean... yeah, using the music means that a payment should be made, but why is it copyright rather than performance rights?

This is just a general question. I used to work in the industry and only reading this do I see how weird it is.

We had the MCPS and PRS. One does physical copies of recordings, and the other does performances of a recording.

Performing rights are what should be applied here, no copy is being offered, it's simply a broadcast.

That being so... why would copyright apply? And if that is the case, then surely all of the fair use doesn't apply because that's related to fair use of copyrights, not performance rights.

Example: If I made a video and had the Beatles on as a sound track. Then I need to make sure I have performance rights (usually by a blanket fee), and don't need to consider copyright at all.

PRS music fees are covered here: http://www.prsformusic.com/users/broadcastandonline/onlinemo...

Obviously this all has a UK slant, it's what I know... just curious as to why a similar thing doesn't apply here and it's considered copyright (MCPS equivalent) when no copy is being made.

"is that it's kosher to use another artist's song as your presentation soundtrack as long as you attribute the song in your presentation somewhere."

No, it's not kosher at all.

Regardless of your opinions on copyright, etc - this is simply not correct as it stands.

So they pay streaming license fees to ASCAP / BMI on behalf of their users?

Public attribution does nothing to make it kosher, only reporting it so the royalties get doled out to the appropriate artists does that.

It is possible that BMI will send a bill, eventually, if they notice. Note that this is separate from paying for a license to use the master (the recording).

You're right, since this isn't just streaming but also use in a larger work — you can't just use someone's song in what's essentially an advertisement without their permission

Kickstarter must have to deal with this shit all the time in the project videos

It apparently happens enough that they have to mention it:

MAKING IT YOURS

And remember, don’t use music, images, video, or other content that you don’t have the rights to. Using copyrighted material is almost always illegal and can lead to expensive lawsuits down the road. The easiest way to avoid copyright troubles? Either create all the content yourself or use content that is free for public use. For example, you may be able to use some Creative Commons-licensed music — per the terms of their licenses — that's available on SoundCloud. Other resources you can explore: Vimeo Music Store, Free Music Archive, and ccMixter.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com