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Comment by h4kor | Hacker News Reader

This is a new(ish) ticket. We had a 9€ ticket for three month (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9-Euro-Ticket) which was a huge monetary relief. Sadly this is not continued, but as a consequence (due to high popularity of the 9 euro ticket) the 49€ ticket is introduced as a compromise.

It generally is cheaper than most (virtually all) monthly tickets. Additionally this one is valid for all of Germany instead of just for a state or specific region. "Job Tickets" used to commute to and from work, subsidized by cities and/or companies, often cost ~90 € per month in my experience.

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We need to realise that 9 euros or 49 euros makes no difference. Both are peanuts for the vast majority of people.

Ultimately these schemes are based on the belief of the current people in charge to public transport should be free. Hence they pushing to get there. But trying to argue that 9 vs 49 is a huge difference feels rather immature.

9€ or 49€ makes a huge difference.

1. For unemployed people and people in low wage jobs, 40€/month is a lot of money, and many will not be able to afford this ticket. Meaning they have to stick to single tickets, whenever it is unavoidable or use other means of transportation.

2. During the 3 month of the 9€ ticket, we saw a huge increase in travels to surrounding areas of cities. Anecdotally, there are stories of bakeries, cafes, bars at the edge of the city who saw an significant increase in customers because the barrier to visit them was lower to virtually zero. People just visited different parts of their city, or other cities because it was now affordable for them.

3. 9€ is a price where you don't think about buying anything else. The first trip you take, you buy this ticket (even on the last day of the month). This massively simplifies traveling by bus and train. 49€ is something you only spend if you know that there will be multiple trips in the month. This combined with the subscription based model, makes the current ticket far less attractive than the previous 9€ ticket.

The 2nd point is misleading as a major part of this effect was likely due to the novelty of the 9€ ticket and it being "only available for a short time" and the COVID lockdowns which had happened before. I.e. it was a "I want to get out" effect combined with a "if I don't do it now I will miss out" effect.

We germans love to criticize even huge improvements, don‘t we? 49€ is dead cheap for that ticket.

The discussion for this ticket started with 9€ so it's fair to compare the result to what they set out to achieve.

9€ would have been a revolution of public transportation. A major step to achieve the emission goals of ministry of transportation, which it utterly fails at and can't even come up with a strategy how to achieve any reductions.

49€ is nice for everyone already using public transportation on a regular basis, but will not induce a significant change in transportation method used, which is desperately needed.

100€ just for one/two Länder would've been a huge improvement for most people I know. It can be a huge improvement but we can still demand better.

It does feel rather surreal, indeed.

588 EUR per year is not peanuts especially for 17% of Germans who are poor.

> 13.8 million Germans either live in poverty or are at risk of slipping below the poverty line.

https://www.dw.com/en/germany-what-poverty-looks-like-in-a-r...

„For Germany, this means that single people who make less than €1,148 in net income a month are considered below the poverty line.“

So 50 Euros would be 5%. Additionally there are discounts for the poor, often bringing the price down to 20 or 30 Euros in most states.

Average EU household spending in transportation is around 13% of income.

Even at only 1000€/month this ticket is only 5%.

The 9€ ticket was so cheap and so heavily subsidized I found it a bit surprising they bothered charging for it at all. It resulted in very crowded trains in the middle of a covid wave. I bought the tickets, but used them so little I probably just broke even relative to the usual price.

Not having a regular commute, I do not usually use 49€ worth of transit in a month. I'd rather ride my bike than be in a crowded train any time that's a viable option. Still, I'd buy the ticket just to always have the option at 9€. At 49€, I'll only buy one if I know I'm going to use it.

That's absolutely false. I don't even spent €9 most months on public transit in Berlin, but at €9, I'd get it and probably use public transit more often (which is the point). There's no way I'd buy a €49 ticket. I primarily bike and drive, though I drive so little that I only have to fill up my tank every 2-3 months.

There's no way you'd use public transport if it cost you 49 euros a month? Hmm I think that means you simply don't really want/need public transport because 49 euros a month for unlimited use is dirt cheap however you look at it.

Frankly, I find it very odd the inhabitants of one of the richest countries on Earth argue over 9 vs 49 euros a month... that feels like next level spoiled.

I'm not arguing that it should exist for €9, I'm arguing that there's a major difference in the effects of a €9 ticket vs. a €49 ticket. I'd actually change my behavior for a €9 ticket. I won't for a €49 ticket, because I won't buy it. And the point of this ticket is to get people to change their behavior.

I mainly get around by bike. I basically use my car for: bad weather, large shopping trips, outings with kids and going to the area around Berlin. I'd consider doing some of the latter two with a public transit pass if I had one.

I actually used to have a monthly ticket -- when I needed it for work. But a lot of people work from home, or bike to work, and for those folks a €49 ticket still really can't be justified. You'd need to make 20 trips a month for it to work out, and if you're not taking public transit to work, that's a larger number than one's likely to need.

That's what I'm saying, then. You do not need public transport and there no sensible reason to change behaviours such as yours because you cycle.

But this started with, "We need to realise that 9 euros or 49 euros makes no difference." It does, for me, and lots of people like me. It's fine for you to think we don't matter, but your claim that people like us don't exist is false.

In fact, in central Berlin people that cycle as a primary means of transportation is extremely common. (I honestly can't think of a single of my friends who uses public transit daily.) €9 vs. €49 makes a difference for people who use public transit as auxiliary transit, not primary transit.

I don't know why it is odd. A ticket in Berlin is around 3 euros. If you make around 10 rides in an average month then a 9 or 29 euros pass is worth it, a 49 euros pass is not worth it. Not everyone will change their travel patterns because of a discounted pass, so there is some threshold at which it is worth it.

I get it you don't need that pass because you already get it cheaper. In fact I think very few people need a national pass and would rather prefer a cheaper local pass.

But the general point is that 49 euros a month to use public transport is dirt cheap and is definitely not a barrier, quite the opposite.

NB if a ticket is 3 euros it means 60/120 euros a month to commute daily without any discounted pass. Obviously, if you use only now and then the 3 euro ticket will be the cheapest option anyway...

It is cheaper then the local pass they can get (by 15+€ per month).

It's not that the local pass is cheaper for them, it's that they use the transportation network so little that buying single tickets on demand is cheaper.

Which makes this whole argument kinda pointless.

I think they believe the 49€ ticket is an attempt to try to make driver stop using the car and use the public transport instead. But this isn't exactly the goal here.

you are speaking about _one directional consecutive rides_

I.e. 10 rides are just 5 trips

if you have a ride home from work and take some side route to stop at a shopping mall or Kino or so that counts as an additional trip

but someone using it for work daily tends to have more then 42 rides a month not just 10 and that is just for work transit in a 5 work day week

and then this is assuming you only travel in the AB area and not the outer area of Berlin

and there are many (in summer) nice places close by Berlin, some still in the C area some beyond

lastly, it's very convenient, I mean since I don't have a semester ticket anymore I forgot to buy a ticket way to often and just was lucky to never got cought

the primary benefit is for commuters, that is 2 rides per workday, 40 rides a month. so effectively 1.23€ per ride.

even as someone working from home, i go out at least 3-4 times a week, shopping, other errands, events, meet friends. two rides each time adds up to at least 30 rides a month.

3€ per ride only gets you 16 rides before you reach 49€. any semi regular user of public transport will reach that easily.

At 50 it's affordable to almost everyone. It's a big improvement, but still incremental.

At 10 (or less) it's a safe assumption for everyone. You can start building things with zero provisions for cars, no excuses. It's a massive social shift.

> I don't even spent €9 most months on public transit in Berlin

which means you don't really use the public transite net at all

because a 4-(one direction) trip bundle ticket cost already 10€, and that is AB only, i.e. excluding the outer areas of Berlin

or in other words if you use the public transportation so little and drive so little that it also doesn't cost you much you really are not the audience this ticket is meant to help

You should calculate the costs for the car. Insurance+tax alone might be above 49€/month.

If you would get rid of it for 9€/month you should also do it for 49€/month.

This ticket is basically a big (!) raise for anyone using public transport. My wife will save 150€/month and can travel everywhere instead of a 50km single route

Tax isn't much, but insurance, fuel and maintenance are more than €49/month. But I'm not considering getting rid of my car. (I may when my kids are older.)

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