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Comment by taylodl | Hacker News Reader

(policy) the middle class was forced to bail out the 0.1% for making bad investments during the crises of 2008.

It should be obvious to everybody the U.S. is an oligarchy. It actually has been for decades now, but it was laid bare in 2008. Many people are fighting the oligarchs in an interesting way - refusing to provide them the labor they need to further enrich themselves. The kids born in 2008 would be 15 in 2023. What the oligarchs are worried about is a huge drop in the labor market. That's one reason they're pushing so hard for ending abortion. All I can say is there's going to be a lot more incels.

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Increased/unlimited immigration seems like their preferred solution to the labor shortage problem. So what if a country's population are refusing to work, just bring in people who are used to worse and pay them less than those pesky citizens.

Then why do these same people complain so much about being "invaded" from the Southern border? Seeing as how I see them as both xenophobic and racist I see their real fear is the precipitous drop in white women having children. They want labor, and they want it to be white. American, at a minimum.

Immigration has always been an issue in America, even in the past when the immigrants were white, and even now among Hispanics themselves.

There are so many reasons for it (economic, social, political, religious, etc) that are just ignored when the thought terminating insults come out.

The "same people" probably want lots of immigration to staff their factories with cheap labor, but they want the Republicans in power because they want lower taxes et al. And the way to keep the Republicans in power is through racist xenophobia.

Because people want to do many of these jobs, but at a livable wage?

My term "same people" was referring to the oligarchs. They complain about the invasion from the Southern border, yet they also complain about people "not wanting to work." It's pretty clear they want to keep America white. I think alarm bells are going off for them with the slipping of the white majority in America.

I was giving you the benefit of the doubt on your first comment, but are you really implying that all american oligarchs are republicans? Sure, some of them are saying the things you mentioned. But it’s ridiculous to ignore all the other ones claiming that not having open borders is a human rights violation.

Both sides play to their audience, but all of it is ultimately about cheap labor.

Are they all Republican? No.

Mostly Republican? Very likely, based off what we know and observe.

> what we know and observe

We're getting pretty in the weeds on this tangent here, so I will just say that it's obvious that "we" "know and observe" different things which is why "we" disagree on certain things. You're not "right", you just believe you are, just like everyone else. Including me!

"what we know and observe" is completely subjective and meaningless on its own.

> You're not "right", you just believe you are, just like everyone else. Including me!

Well then, we're both right! :)

We can either automate production or import workers.

Currently we're automating as fast as possible. Meanwhile people are flooding across the border. Perhaps migrants realize that once ChatGPT is robotized, automation will spread to dominate the economy: there will be less need for labor (immigrant or other).

BTW assuming "oligarchs" control the economy is not a useful concept.

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