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Comment by jkubicek | Hacker News Reader

To me, the weirdest part of Rick Rubin as a producer is that he has no distinctive sound. As best I can tell, there's no way to listen to an album and know he produced it.

I've watched a lot of interviews with Rick and about Rick, and his role seems to be entirely limited to being a muse for artists. He's not technical, he's not a musician, he doesn't really do anything beyond taking naps in the recording studio while the musicians record, occasionally opening his eyes to ask them how they feel.

To be honest, it would almost be possible to argue that Rick Rubin doesn't do anything worthwhile if he didn't have an outrageously long and unimpeachable resume to back up his contributions.

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He's like a service animal for artists. He figures out what they need to feel comfortable and safe, to get into that flow state, and keeps them there while they record.

I really love him, he's an American treasure. I am so personally grateful for what he did for Johnny Cash.

It seems like he often takes on a passive role but has no problem being more active when necessary. The story of how he pursued Johnny Cash and introduced him to Nine Inch Nails’ Hurt is one example.

I’m reading Rubin’s book now and I really like it. It’s full of his observations and advice which includes not listening to advice. Very short chapters that are easy to read but I try not to read more than one or two a week because I find myself thinking about what I read for days.

Or the need to get hip hop understood by the masses through a familiar lens - ergo the Toys in the Attic hook into Walk this Way with Run DMC who he had to convince those washed up rock stars would help them sell more records.

https://www.loudersound.com/features/walk-this-way-run-dmc-a...

I think this is truly is Rubin's defining contribution and achievement: the industry leaders had an appetite to expand the hip-hop market to the mainstream and, judging by the general low-effort nature of the "Walk this Way" mashup, I can only assume almost any ol' crap would have gotten the airtime and juice to get over the top.

But Rick himself was the guy who could broker these deals with the artists', not some older label suit, but a guy who presented himself more as an artist and collaborator. A guy like that is huge value for stakeholders looking to steer the consumer towards a new product or a cultural trend.

Agreed. He reads his own audiobook and it’s incredible. I keep going back to it.

Lack of reverb, especially in drums. He notoriously hated reverb.

One of the reasons it's hard to pin him down is because of the impact he had. It's like a fish in water or a nation jot recognizing it's distinct culture. This man, more than any other single man, impacted American popular culture to an unimaginable degree. If you grew up in the 90s or 00s, the music he produced dominated, set the tone, was the soundtrack to the American experience.

His records tend to be extremely "loud" too in a "pushed" or "squashed" sense of the word. Add that to the shortlist of his sonic signatures.

Not that loudness is a defining quality, but it's (in my opinion) a short-sighted trade-off for short term impact at the expense of long-term listenability that his records subscribe to.

This is super frustrating when you see the same in colleagues. Specifically, when upper management starts asking why we should keep person X around, as they were involved in a ton of accomplishments, but don't seem to be the driver for any of them.

Suggest they watch "Moneyball".

I remember an interview where people that worked with him (I think Jay-Z?) described him as a "reducer" more than a "producer" which makes sense to me.

I've heard stories of artists with projects deep into scope creep calling Rick Rubin in to help cut through all the chaff.

It would make sense that he doesn't have a particular sound if his goal is to help the artist make the best possible art they can.

He stated as much in his recent Lex interview - paraphrasing "I get paid for my taste... and besides just saying what I like or pointing out what doesn't work, I'm aggressive at removing what isn't necessary to get the point across".

“Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.”

If there were a product manager version of Rick Rubin, I think they'd be worth their weight in gold.

This is an interesting thought.

It seems like in many cultures, bringing someone in to cancel unnecessary features would be admitting defeat. At least, to the PM.

I wonder why it's okay to do that with a song but not software. Weird cultural stuff...

Reduction is almost magical.

Last year, I was working as a founding engineer for an early stage startup. We were working on a pitch deck, and I was trying to make it really well designed and professional. I'm a former artist so even though I'm not strictly speaking a designer, I have enough visual chops to make it look pretty.

So anyways, I put hours and hours of effort into this pitch deck. When we presented it to our advisors, they tore it apart - not because of the visual aesthetics but more so because the content itself wasn't good enough.

I was pretty upset that I had spent all this time making it "look nice" and now have to go back and redo a lot of the content, so I told myself "just get rid of everything that isn't 'design'". That way I could just focus on the content itself without having to waste time on the visuals.

What happened is that the end result of this process genuinely looked way better than before. When I stripped the design out, the design came to life.

For killing scope creep, yes. But Rubin works off instinct and his own tastes and is forthright about having no clue or interest on what listeners want. Those aren’t traits that really make a good PM, but thank goodness music isn’t product management. PM’d music is Maroon5. They are a product, not art.

I don’t get the criticism that Rubin doesn’t have “a particular sound.” Music should have the musicians’ sound, not the producer’s. The producer should be invisible and bring out the best in the musicians, the way an editor in writing is.

It never occured to me that it could be criticism. I thought the lack of a "Rick Rubin sound" was more more of an observation.

It’s not supposed to be a criticism. Not having “a sound” means you’re versatile and dynamic.

Somewhat analogous to the function of editors, with regard to published books.

His ideas are gold. It was his idea for Run DMC to cover Walk this Way, for Johnny Cash to cover NiN's "Hurt", for "99 Problems" to start acapella, and the bridge for "Chop Suey". He's not just passively enabling artists, he actively provides input as well.

> He's not technical, he's not a musician, he doesn't really do anything beyond taking naps in the recording studio while the musicians record, occasionally opening his eyes to ask them how they feel

He sounds like the Steve Jobs of music production! He seems to have the unquantifiable gift of having good taste, the faith and respect of the people who work with him.

Just as one example that he definitely doesn't do literally nothing, here's him giving a suggestion that created an iconic intro to a very well-known hip-hop song: https://youtu.be/FqNDYvsOZkc?t=203

That is a good point. My understanding is that there are different types of producers, and some lean more technical, while others lean more consultative, and Rubin is falls in the latter camp. Contrast that to other more technical producers like Phil Spector, or Dave Fridmann whos productions have a very distinctive sound.

My observation is that it seems like his skill is helping the artist see their work in a different way, helping them make creative decisions, and just generally offering counsel around how to make the best possible work. This process doesn't manifest in a specific sound, and each production is different based on the needs of the artist.