Comment by potatohead00 | Hacker News Reader

Comment by potatohead00 | Hacker News Reader

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I'm more in agreement with angersock on the topic of the draft.

I would love to live in an enlightened world where we can all talk out our issues, without ever resorting to violence. I do believe that people, on an individual level, can be reasonable.

The problem <i>is</i> the masses. If a leader comes out with a compelling argument casting group X (country, terrorist cell, religious belief, etc) as a direct threat to the social group YOU belong to, you probably won't want to be the one who stands up and says "maybe that guys full of it?". You look weak and you look like you don't want to be part of the group. And the leader will tell you as much and try to push you out of the group.

Now, spin that story where there's a universal draft. All of a sudden, you and everyone else in the social group have to weigh the consequences of you or someone you love dying somewhere far away. When someone pipes up and tells the leader he/she's full of it, they don't sound like such a nay sayer.

In regards to just 'laying down and letting the terrorists kill you', I don't believe angersock meant that at all (correct me if I'm wrong) - we should avoid all this security theater BS. Do you really think that body scanners at airports are stopping terrorists? Any time I've flown into the states it seems like there's as many TSA agents as there are passengers.

(you can surround statements with asterisks like so to get italics :) )

You're basically correct in your interpretation of my views on the security theater and the like. The sad, sorry state of the matter is that when your country is as wealthy as ours, and--more importantly--as large as ours, you kind of have to stop thinking about things any other way than statistically.

It's a hell of a thing to say, but honestly, what's a few thousand deaths in a fluke attack? What's a few hundred million dollars worth of property damage?

The likelihood of that happening to any one of us is so small as to be absurd--even less if everyone is armed, but that is a brand of crazy I don't expect to sell to everyone.

The damage these attacks has actually done to us has been to invoke this media meme of the evil terrorists coming to kill us in our moment of distraction.

The initial loss my country suffered has been compounded beyond all reason by the fear-mongering and reactionary policy-making. Worse still, while we fret about a loss of men and material over a decade ago, our government (with, apparently, our own consent and approval!) has gone on to attack our fundamental liberties and notions of decency so systematically that many still refuse to believe they're up to anything.

All because people are dumb, and get afraid, and are susceptible to the same emotional pandering as they've always been. Oddly enough, I'm actually in agreement with javert about the fact that people should reason more--I just know that you can't write policy that depends on it.

You look weak and you look like you don't want to be part of the group. And the leader will tell you as much and try to push you out of the group.

That's why we have the Bill of Rights in the US. Freedom of speech, freedom of religion, and so on. Our society is (currently) civilized enough that people can speak up without problems.

All of a sudden, you and everyone else in the social group have to weigh the consequences of you or someone you love dying somewhere far away.

That just tips the balance differently. Now, if you're a big war hawk, people can say, "Well, you don't have to go fight or have family that fight." If everyone has to go fight, and you're a dove, people will say, "Well, you're just a coward who isn't willing to give your fair share."

we should avoid all this security theater BS

I totally agree with you. TSA is a massive violation of rights and is ridiculous. The solution is to end states that give terrorists leeway in their borders or directly support them. And I don't mean a 10 year ground occupation. I mean forcing their leaders to abide by certain written rules, or they get booted.

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