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Living forever would be hell in your current form. Trust me on this one

Uhm, this knows why it’s bad to use this form, but why in general? This asks for elaboration.

Actually you're right - living forever in general would be a nightmare regardless of intelligence i suppose, but neither I or you yourself can comment on it since I don't believe humanity is close to having super-intelligence yet? Sorry if I'm misunderstanding your question though. If you're asking why living forever would be a nightmare - this quite by James Joyce sums it up nicely: "What must it be, then, to bear the manifold tortures of hell forever? Forever! For all eternity! Not for a year or an age but forever. Try to imagine the awful meaning of this. You have often seen the sand on the seashore. How fine are its tiny grains! And how many of those tiny grains go to make up the small handful which a child grasps in its play. Now imagine a mountain of that sand, a million miles high, reaching from the earth to the farthest heavens, and a million miles broad, extending to remotest space, and a million miles in thickness, and imagine such an enormous mass of countless particles of sand multiplied as often as there are leaves in the forest, drops of water in the mighty ocean, feathers on birds, scales on fish, hairs on animals, atoms in the vast expanse of air. And imagine that at the end of every million years a little bird came to that mountain and carried away in its beak a tiny grain of that sand. How many millions upon millions of centuries would pass before that bird had carried away even a square foot of that mountain, how many eons upon eons of ages before it had carried away all. Yet at the end of that immense stretch time not even one instant of eternity could be said to have ended. At the end of all those billions and trillions of years eternity would have scarcely begun. And if that mountain rose again after it had been carried all away again grain by grain, and if it so rose and sank as many times as there are stars in the sky, atoms in the air, drops of water in the sea, leaves on the trees, feathers upon birds, scales upon fish, hairs upon animals – at the end of all those innumerable risings and sinkings of that immeasurably vast mountain not even one single instant of eternity could be said to have ended; even then, at the end of such a period, after that eon of time, the mere thought of which makes our very brain reel dizzily, eternity would have scarcely begun."

This Is It, by Alan Watts also describes some of the same feelings. I picked it up recently and am still trying to digest the concepts he describes.

Thank you for writing this. I believe almost the exact same thing and it's nice to see someone else feels similarly

Although I agree with you, I do not agree that This Is Water is helpful in learning the truth of which you write.

I suppose you're correct. Maybe this conversation with Alan Watts is a better description of what I'm talking about: https://youtu.be/NpS85_E4xj4

I think it's quite sad and pessimistic to be so unable to deal with the horror of death that you actually go as far to deny that you even really exist right now.

I'm not sure where you got that message from. Nowhere in my response did I state that I or anyone else should deny existence - in fact what I'm implying is quite the opposite. I'm simply stating that our perceived experience of having a fractured existence as individual beings that die and are extinguished within a single lifetime is an illusion (i.e. you not only exist currently but you exist in a myriad of forms). In fact - time itself is also an illusion. Read about the theory of relativity if you don't believe me. Brian Green also explains it well in his Frozen River chapter in Fabric of the Cosmos.

You said that we should consider our existence as an illusion. I am not scared of death enough that I feel the need to consider my existence to be an illusion.

Trust me, I practised Buddhism quite heavily with a teacher. I understand what impermanence and no-self means. I still think that it's sad to use impermanence and no-self to cope with death. Accept your clear, bright vitality, despite death.

> In fact - time itself is also an illusion. Read about the theory of relativity if you don't believe me.

I have a PhD in theoretical physics and this is very incorrect.

Ah thank you for this. I'm a little too early in my physics career to feel comfortable speaking authoritatively when people come out like this.

Besides, if everyone is you than isn't that a pale approximation of unending life? I hate it when people either read or think up an interesting philosophy of existence but then become convinced that they know The Truth. If existence is a vast and strange as claimed is it not equally if not infinitely more likely that they have no idea what the hell they're talking about? I mean, no matter how many human lifetimes you traverse you're still just a human. That is, unless your philosophy also involves you being the One True God, which i think devolves into narcissism pretty fast.

I must admit i have found myself wishing that i had been all of them in separate times. It's just so alluring to think i was Einstein and Feynman and Turing and everyone else. I can almost convince myself that i can see enough similarities to make it possible. But that's actually crazy. It's a sensation, a desire. A way of fighting off both the fear of death and the fear that this life won't matter as much as I'd like. After all, who cares, one day I'll be the leader of the free world and i guess also an asshole most likely. It's just a cope for me.

It's also sad that so many purely pull to the authority of physics to justify their personal philosophy. "Quantum" has been butchered by popular media in such a way that everyone just takes it to mean what they want it to mean. Anyways, I'd love to read or hear about your PhD in theoretical physics, I'm about a year away from starting a PhD

Sorry for the very late reply. /u/dang has imposed a severe rate limit on my account

Honestly I think it's just best to accept the life that immediately presents itself to us: totally localised to each separate being, facing death as exactly the horror that it seems. I think that, unless you have genuine insight into some kind of deeper reality, then anything else really is just wishful thinking. I just think it's quite sad to go so far in that wishful thinking so as to wish away the reality of the life you currently have.

> It's also sad that so many purely pull to the authority of physics to justify their personal philosophy. "Quantum" has been butchered by popular media in such a way that everyone just takes it to mean what they want it to mean. Anyways, I'd love to read or hear about your PhD in theoretical physics, I'm about a year away from starting a PhD

I totally agree. I'm pretty jaded about science communication because of it. Also it really implies that we have some really strong philosophical ideas about what physics means, when we really don't. We actually have no idea how to interpret the results of quantum mechanics and relativity.

You're not understanding the message at all. There is nothing narcissistic about what I posted - the message is supposed to be more about how interconnected we all are and how the human experience is in fact an illusion. "A human being is a part of the whole called by us universe, a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feeling as something separated from the rest, a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest to us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty." - Albert Einstein

Also - I'm not scared of death. You come out attacking assuming that I'm sprouting new age stuff. I'm not. I'm simply trying to respond to a pessimistic comment in a positive way and to make the author feel better about his perception of existance. I've studied physics for well over 20 years now and I've met and talked to many others who have PhDs as well. QED by Feynman is actually my bible. I actually bring it with me everywhere I travel. Either way - before offending someone and coming out firing next time, maybe you should calm down and take a deep breath. I'm not trying to offend or hurt anyone - although it appears to me that you are.

Sorry for the very late reply. /u/dang has imposed a severe rate limit on my account

> You come out attacking assuming that I'm sprouting new age stuff. I'm not.

I mean, you honestly are, quite objectively. You are literally relaying your own interpretation of Buddhist philosophy, specifically the teachings of no-self and impermanence.

> I've studied physics for well over 20 years now and I've met and talked to many others who have PhDs as well. QED by Feynman is actually my bible. I actually bring it with me everywhere I travel.

Well that doesn't really mean anything. Physics doesn't say that time is an illusion. In relativity, time, like space, is a very important parameter, since it is when events occur. In fact, gravity on our Earth is primarily due to the bending of time. Hardly seems like relativity is telling us that it's illusory. In Quantum Mechanics, time is a very important parameter, and can't even be easily reconciled with space.

> Either way - before offending someone and coming out firing next time, maybe you should calm down and take a deep breath. I'm not trying to offend or hurt anyone - although it appears to me that you are.

This quite well illustrates what I'm talking about. You are very quick to apply the Buddhist teachings of no-self and impermanence to the "pessimism of death", but now that you want to be mad and offended, you quickly forget about it. Your irritation is too clear and vivid to ignore, just like your life.

"Life and death are of supreme importance. Time swiftly passes by and opportunity is lost. We should strive to awaken. Awaken! Take heed! Do not squander your life." - Zen Master Dogen

In Zen we called what you are doing "attaching to emptiness"

"I mean, you honestly are, quite objectively. You are literally relaying your own interpretation of Buddhist philosophy, specifically the teachings of no-self and impermanence."

I'm sorry - but could you show where I'm actually implying or stating that there is 'no-self' or 'impermanence'? I'm implying that we're infinitely powerful beings that misperceive the interconnection within reality. I'll once again pull up a quote from Einstein to reiterate my position:

“A human being is a part of the whole called by us universe, a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feeling as something separated from the rest, a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest to us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty.” - Albert Einstein

All I did was attempt to state that we are all inter-connected. Everything else you talk about is your own skewed and incredibly wrong interpretation of what I'm trying to state.

"Well that doesn't really mean anything. Physics doesn't say that time is an illusion."

And the same back to you. Your PhD in Physics means nothing to me, so blatantly talking about it like it gives you some sort of extra credentials makes you look extremely ignorant. Also - apologies for stating something in a manner which wasn't clear. Time is clearly a PARAMATER IN THIS UNIVERSE AND IS NOT AN ILLUSION. I can't think of anyone who would be stupid enough to deny the existence of time. What I meant to say is that the 'FLOW' of time is an ILLUSION. Here - this is a great watch for anyone that's non-you and that wants to understand what I truly meant to say:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Y-JmocB84Y

"Life and death are of supreme importance. Time swiftly passes by and opportunity is lost. We should strive to awaken. Awaken! Take heed! Do not squander your life." - Zen Master Dogen

I 100% agree with this statement.

In Zen we called what you are doing "attaching to emptiness"

Once again, I'm not sure where in the world I'm "attaching to emptiness." Once again - you're adding your own interpretation here so I have no further comments for you.

Our perception of time as having a 'flow' is an illusion is what I meant to say. Saying that I'm incorrect when you aren't even comprehending what I'm saying I think means that having this conversation with you is useless. Good luck with your physics PhD.

While we're at it, why not make up a whole load of things to believe in? Like your comment.

I'm not sure what your insinuating here. What I'm attempting to say is that the universe is ONE thing. It's not a fractured state of personalities that are living and dying - we are all interconnected. Even after you die, you and the memories and actions here will travel along well into the future without you realizing it, so it is wise to treat everyone with compassion and respect and to live life to the fullest. Also - death is a gift. Living forever would be a nightmare. Those are my beliefs and solely mine. Maybe you don't believe in them and that's fine.

> What I'm attempting to say is that the universe is ONE thing.

But the point is, I don't experience reality in this way, I experience reality as a totally separate individual. I don't think coping with death is a good reason to deny that I experience reality completely as an individual, and never as "the whole universe".

> Also - death is a gift. Living forever would be a nightmare.

If "time is an illusion", then birth and death are also illusory, as Buddhism teaches. Therefore, according to your own philosophical views, you do live forever.

The flow of time is an illusion. This has already been undoubtedly proven and discovered and the theory of relativity implies that the flow of time is nothing but an illusion. Here - read pages 68 to 76 to understand what I'm talking about:

https://cdn.preterhuman.net/texts/science_and_technology/The...