Who was forced to get vaccinated in which country?
Yes, nobody came with a gun and "forced" them to take it, but significant economic coercision meets my definition of force.
Military members are vaccinated against a myriad of illnesses right after joining. They are also required to follow a bunch of rules, some of which severely restrict the practice of their first amendment rights.
They weren't "forced", as much as they have to agree with the DoD rules to work for them.
Obligatory "I'm pro vaccine".
The fact that the military lifts people out of poverty is a great thing. It's a damned hard life being in the military, especially if you make a career out of it. But four years of service with a decent shot at an education and solid employment when you get out is a fair trade.
That's exactly my point. You join the Marines and you get all of the benefits and drawbacks you enumerated. You don't and you get to live in poverty. I think that can be described as coercive.
To be clear, I'm not against the Marine corps or their vaccine policies. I just don't think coercion (even if it originates outside the Marine Corps) can be removed from _some_ people's choice to join.
We both landed in largely the same spot. My friend just gets a ton of extra benefits from his service that have really added up over time. He hated being in the military, but he straight up says it's the best decision he's ever made.
My younger brother took the Navy enlisted -> retirement route (just hit rank where he can get 20 years, E6 I think), and while it's been hard, he says the same thing. Despite the injuries, moving constantly, deployments away from family, pay fuckups, and garbage housing, he loves it. And he'll retire at 42 or something with a pension and paid health care, after which, he'll get paid to go back to school then get a cushy tech gig at a DoD contractor.
Having seen people go through it, I think it's a good deal. Not just for people in poverty, but middle/upper class people too. I'm the last person you'd take for a "support our troops" guy, but I'd absolutely encourage my kids to do military service.
I hope it lasts. Surely every generation has faced the challenge to uphold the same principles as The United States Marine Corps but, just as certainly, the struggle of today seem more perilous than before.
I often think of how the British refused to burn down a Marine Corps barracks during The War of 1812 out of respect for an honorable opponent.
That's a loaded conundrum, but isn't this also true about pretty much any other job, especially in the US?
I also watched a lot of people get vaccinated and rack up multiple infections in the following year.
My wife convinced me to do it but I was very conflicted internally. I ended up fine and still haven't had an infection, as far as I know.
My brother desisted and wore a mask all the time at work, he cought it once, maybe twice.
Whatever the results are in the end, the damage to people's trust in the government, pharmaceuticals, and media may never be repaired, pro or anti mRNA vaccine.
It's a real tragedy.
Either way, the coercion in the equation is constant. And that doesn't have to be a bad thing. But it is something we can acknowledge and then determine if X degree of coercion for Y outcome was moral, valid, justifiable, etc. But the coercion existed regardless of our conclusion of its utility.
The fact that they have the most to gain from unionization, socialized healthcare, excellent public education, etc. yet seem to support the politics most beneficial to the wealthy and powerful seems like more than a coincidence to me.
Ok, but I hope you apply that criterion to every situation, and not just vaccination.
I find it interesting to consider the Venn diagram of people who claim that vaccination was forced and people who claim that everything (else) that happens in the free market is voluntary.
The federally-imposed policy affected many people, given how it involved the transportation sector, in addition to federal government staff:
"Prime Minister announces mandatory vaccination for the federal workforce and federally regulated transportation sectors" (October 6, 2021)
https://www.pm.gc.ca/en/news/news-releases/2021/10/06/prime-...
The largest cities forced their staff, too. Here are the announcements for Toronto and Vancouver, for example:
"City of Toronto announces mandatory COVID-19 vaccination for its employees" (August 19, 2021)
https://www.toronto.ca/news/city-of-toronto-announces-mandat...
"City announces mandatory COVID-19 vaccination policy" (October 18, 2021)
https://vancouver.ca/news-calendar/city-announces-mandatory-...
Those are just a few examples that had a pretty widespread impact.
Those parroting this point forget to mention that hospitals across the country were collapsing because of COVID-19 patient admissions.
How does hospitals collapsing change that?
You are now suggesting that vaccines did not prevent severe illness, which is not true.
Vaccinations were a matter of public health. Vaccines did not prevent infections, but they prevented severe illness.
The healthcare system was collapsing under the pressure from hundreds of thousands of patients suffering from severe illness. This would put any other people seeking for care at risk, since they could not get it.
Since vaccinations would prevent severe illness, that would alleviate the pressure on the system, thus making care available to people who otherwise wouldn't be able to get it.
It's not that hard to understand.
You are arguing against a straw man of your own invention.
It seems that you aren't aware of the precarious situation of the healthcare system during the pandemic. Either that, or you like to move goalposts.
People are still so polarized though, I expect the really interesting information is a few years out until it's somewhat settled.
[1] https://www.bmj.com/content/376/bmj.o298
[2] https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2022/12/424546/covid-19-vaccines-p...