Comment by everdrive | Hacker News Reader

Comment by everdrive | Hacker News Reader

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This really shouldn’t be read as a defense of EV companies, but I think there is just a learning curve for EVs which people really haven’t grappled with yet.

Here is a minor list of things which will reduce range pretty significantly:

- Driving over 50 MPH

- Using the AC

- Using the heat

- Driving in extreme cold or extreme heat

- Driving in an area with a lot of hills. (From what I can tell regenerative braking makes up less than it loses for a given hill. If anyone can correct me here, let me know)

- Accelerating more than necessary

- Not making full use of regenerative braking

- Driving on the highway rather than around town (see the 50 MPH comment)

Are these concessions OK? Is it just a matter of better education and more honest marketing? That’s sort of for everyone to decide collectively. One thing that is for sure is that EVs have a totally different set of quirks and limitations than ICE vehicles, and that will have to be adjusted for one way or another. It’s also worth noting that most of the things listed above _also_ adversely affect ICE vehicles, however not necessarily as much, or it’s not felt directly because getting gas is very convenient.

It also strikes me that anything which adversely affects MPG in an ICE vehicle can also be said to “reduce range.” You’re losing miles off your current tank of gas. Presumably because the range is so small, and recharge opportunities are so limited, this affects people in EVs more strongly than in ICE vehicles. Perhaps if both were improved (battery capacity and charging infrastructure) then these concerns would evaporate.

What does any of this have to do with the fact that Tesla is lying to its customers and the other EV manufacturers are not.

Who says that they're not? Seems all the attention is on Tesla because of a certain someone... In any case telling customers EPA numbers shouldn't be considered a lie.

Polestar does the exact same thing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3P32TyLMMM&t=644s

I have a mental model which goes something like this:

When 80% of your energy goes to waste than all the incidentals like AC and especially heating just does not surface as a contributing factor.

When however 80-90% of energy goes to driving, then speed and all the accessories start having a real impact.

It also shows how energy dense gasoline/diesel are that a 50kg tank will outperform 400kg batteries even with the 4-5x efficiency difference.

Heating an ICE car is essentially free, it's throwing off so much heat all the time.

Running the AC a lot in an ICE car can definitely impact efficiency. I get like a 17% difference in mileage if I don't have to run my AC.

> - Driving on the highway rather than around town (see the 50 MPH comment)

That would greatly depend on the town one is picturing. In pretty much any neighborhood in LA, there's no way you're going to sustain a speed of 50 mph for any reasonable period of time without frequently stopping at intersections, your usual traffic congestion, pedestrians wandering into the street, other drivers making idiotic maneuvers, etc. No way is your mileage going to be better on surface streets even if you do your best to reach 50 mph but not exceed it. Frequently braking and accelerating requires more gas than will be eaten up by driving at a constant speed of 65 mph.

What you say about the reduced range makes sense but I don't fully trust the decision on what range to show to have all the right motives in this case when many other manufcaturers (also in ICE vehicles) adjust their shown range based on recent drives. Tesla does do this if you plan a route so they are certainly capable but unlike the mentioned toyotas, bmw's, etc they choose to use the unchanging unrealistic estimate that gets a lot of people in trouble. Given that they also stonewall when its about issues that people can't affect with their driving style or can be a matter of opinion I don't feel inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt and say maybe people should adjust their behaviour and expectations. If they are given more accurate mileage by default then it's after all much easier for them to make those considerations and realisations about what affects it.

Actually, gas cars have the best range on highways because the engine can stay at peak efficiency, electric cars are best in the city because they only use energy when moving and can recover energy from slowing (i.e. stop and go). And others mentioned that heating is free in gas cars (in fact it might improve your cooling and thus efficiency).

> Here is a minor list of things which will reduce range pretty significantly:

Bit of a sarcastic take: apparently also use of indicators.

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