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Comment by crazygringo | Hacker News Reader

You know, by this point is does seem like Apple could make an M2 chip extra-heavy on the GPU, like they have their Pro/Max/Ultra variants, package it in an Apple TV chassis, ship it with a controller, and have an instant Xbox/PS competitor if they could get gaming companies to target it as a platform for AAA games.

I wonder why they don't, but I'm not a gamer. Is there something about GPU performance that still doesn't stack up? Does the violence of many AAA games go against their Disney-clean brand? Are there too many platform exclusives that would hamstring the effort? Is it just not in Apple's DNA? Or is console gaming just not profitable enough at the end of the day?

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As I alluded to in a sibling comment: gaming is not in Apple's DNA. Their executives are just not interested in gaming.

That being said, even if they were, Apple likes fat margins on all their hardware. Game consoles are the Gillet model, zero to negative margins on the console with money made on licenses and services.

A theoretical AppleTV with an M2 and beefy GPU with a useful amount of storage could never hit their margin goals. Such a box would basically be the high end Mac mini which retails for $1299. There's no way Apple would sell that kit for $399 and try to make up the difference in licenses and services. Even with a huge attach rate there's no way they'd make up the difference.

Even with the hardware (an older A-series would stomp the Switch), Apple just keeps burning bridges with the industry due to the exec problem you mentioned.

They do nothing (old OpenGL) or make things worse (unfixed OpenGL bugs), or promise a new focus and then don’t keep following through long-term.

The only reason Apple has any credibility in any way with games is the iPhone, and they did basically nothing. They were in the right place with good hardware and made software easy to buy. They didn’t focus on it.

(Then they allowed IAPs and destroyed the market for good iPhone games but made everyone rich so ‘woo’)

They got in a giant fight with nVidia. They totally pissed office Epic, makers of Unreal (it wasn’t going well before the games store stuff). Took years to allow real controllers and didn’t make one of their own so most people didn’t know BT controllers were an option. Forced AppleTV games to support the Siri touch remote as a controller for years despite it being useless for most games. Take a huge cut of profits on all non-Mac devices. Randomly reject app updates. Don’t have a public roadmap for anything and can change direction on a dime.

Everything I’ve heard is they have no faith from the industry. I’m not surprised.

Steve Jobs didn’t want the Mac seen as a toy or video games machine but a ‘real computer’ and the attitude hasn’t exactly changed since.

Jerry Pournelle was black listed for life from Apple events because he called the original Mac 'a toy' because it didn't have enough RAM to do serious work.

There was that very brief period in the late 90's where Job's vaguely gave it a little try with things like a Demo of Quake 3 on stage but they then moved on from that almost immediately.

The closest thing Apple has done for gaming technology wise is the Metal API, if they really wanted to make an impact on gaming, they would have adopted Vulkan.

> The closest thing Apple has done for gaming technology wise is the Metal API, if they really wanted to make an impact on gaming, they would have adopted Vulkan.

Work on Metal started before AMD donated Mantle to Khronos which became Vulkan and was released (IIRC) before Vulkan was finalized. Apple was not going to drop all that investment to chase Vulkan.

Giantrobot’s comment is spot on.

I’m addition, I think Apple just wanted a faster and more modern API to make better use of their hardware than the old version of OpenGL they were using. I suspect they still would have made Metal even if the games industry didn’t exist.

That just happens to be the context we hear it discusses in the most, for obvious reasons.

I think Metal would have 100% happened even if somehow the game industry didn't exist. It was all about getting better performance, especially better performance per watt by making more optimal use of the hardware. I don't think the OpenGL model of GPUs was ever going to get there. Since Vulkan just didn't exist when Apple was looking at the landscape they decided to make their own system.

Game consoles work on slim margins or even a loss that is made back by licensed game and accessory sales. This is very anti-Apple. Compare the hardware of something like the $300 Xbox Series S to the $600 Mac Mini. The Xbox has 2GB more RAM, a beefier GPU, twice the storage space and includes a controller (~$50 value) and an HDMI cable in addition to the power cable which is all that's bundled with the mini.

AAA games eat storage too taking typically 30-100+ GBs. Baldur's Gate 3 for example is 125GB. Xbox has relatively expensive sort of proprietary storage upgrades where 1TB is $150 but it looks downright cheap compared to what Apple asks for 1TB.

Also, the App Store still does not accept app bundles larger than 4GB.

> Does the violence of many AAA games go against their Disney-clean brand?

Judging by the Apple original content on AppleTV, this is not an issue.

Oh good point. Yup, that's definitely not it then.

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