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Comment by wkat4242 | Hacker News Reader

I'm in Europe and I've had very poor experiences with local carriers in getting an eSIM :( Most of them outright refuse unless you are on a mobile contract plan with them (I'm not, I hate contracts so I only use prepay). On prepay they don't want to support it here in Spain for whatever stupid reason even though I've had my prepay number for 10 years. They also levy much more restrictions on the whole ordeal: Usually only locally sold models are allowed. So you can't use a Dutch Samsung phone with a Spanish eSIM. I'm really annoyed with this because the whole idea of eSIM was to make things easier for the customer, not harder and more restrictive.

Perhaps the carriers that specialise in temporary data contracts for travelers are ok, but local permanent carriers are crap with this.

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> the whole idea of eSIM was to make things easier for the customer, not harder and more restrictive.

I remember reading an article in a French newspaper about how carriers were "uncomfortable" with the eSIM because it severed "the last connection" between them and their customers. The latter would basically no longer have a reason to "interact" with the former.

I don't quite see how that's a bad thing. The less you have to deal with "those people" (and this works from either side), the better it is, no? In my case, the last time I've "interacted" with my carrier was some 10 years ago when my phone got stolen, and I had to get a new SIM. Other than that, I pay them every month and they make sure my phone works every month.

At least with my carrier, it's cheaper to get an eSIM than a physical SIM. I didn't actually get one, since I've had my current SIM for a very long time. They basically charge for the "SIM service", and there's a separate charge for the physical part if you get it in a brick & mortar store, or for shipping if you want it delivered.

> Usually only locally sold models are allowed.

How can they tell, are there still country-specific models? I know people from the US and from Russia coming to France, popping a local SIM in and being in business. These were all iPhones, though.

> I don't quite see how that's a bad thing

But how is the carrier going to "engage" you? How are all the people involved in sales and marketing there going to justify their job?

A carrier that operates fully automatically with minimal customer interaction could indeed be more profitable, but it's politically impossible for any established company to transition to such a model since it would obviate the need for many positions there - those same positions rely on the current status-quo (no matter how mediocre) and will fight any attempts at improving efficiency.

(this is not limited to carriers, any large legacy company has the same issues - lots of positions are just there to create work to sustain other, equally-useless positions, while the new output of the system being zero or even negative).

> because it severed "the last connection" between them and their customers. The latter would basically no longer have a reason to "interact" with the former.

I love how they put this because it's exactly how I phrase my general objection to and avoidance of SaaS and other kinds of services. I do NOT want to have a relationship with every single vendor. Managing relationships is costly. Most of the time, those relationships are highly abusive towards the customer. And they're almost always artificial anyway; they exist entirely to let the vendor keep a sales channel open. That's exactly what I do not want as a customer.

>I remember reading an article in a French newspaper about how carriers were "uncomfortable" with the eSIM because it severed "the last connection" between them and their customers.

That's a very delicate euphemism for "eSIM makes it easier to switch networks, which would increase churn and eat into our margins".

> The less you have to deal with "those people" (and this works from either side), the better it is, no?

The less contact, the less opportunity to upsell you to something that provides them recurring revenue.

It's all about rent seeking ("passive income") these days, everywhere.

People use Airalo app to buy eSIMs, wherever they travel to. One can buy eSIM even before you land in foreign lands. I don't have experience with Airalo, but many recommended that app on this site.

Ah ok, but that's only for temporary use, it's not intended for real permanent usage, right?

I'll consider it if I ever travel outside of europe though (roaming inside EU was fixed several years ago luckily).

This might be because most countries nowadays require a photo ID for SIM cards. The Netherlands, UK and US are among the few that don't (yet).

https://prepaid-data-sim-card.fandom.com/wiki/Registration_P...

Photo ID? Then how do you get an anonymous burner phone? Order it online somehow?

In an increasing number of places, you don't (except perhaps by forcing or convincing someone to let you use their identity). Where I'm at right now, receiving SMS or making phone calls require a subscription with photo ID and physical address - prepaids and travel SIMs are data-only these days. The latter ones also require photo ID for service activation.

The whole rationale of the laws in these countries is that you shouldn't be allowed to get one.

But why? It's not anyone's business but my own. If a snotty call phone rep insisted on a treating me like a teenager at a bar they would be some talking and not from my mouth.

For instance, Eurolink eSIM card with 180 days validity can be had for 180 euros on Airalo.com. They also have re-chargeable eSIMs, just you need to top up just before it expires.

Ah but that is really really expensive :)

I can get a local SIM with 50GB data that is available with a 10 euro topup each month.

Don't forget the purchasing power in Europe is much lower than in the US (especially southern Europe). For this reason local carriers are a lot cheaper too.

If argue that it's the opposite as there is competition and in civilised European countries there is working regulation etc, not like the US where carriers are able to lobby and cheat to maintain their monopolies - case in point I have unlimited everything (Inc 5g, except MMS) in country and 64G in the rest of Europe for about 30 EUR/mo

And you can have the same for a similar price in the States. The US cellular market is quite good. Have a look at Canada if you want to see what a cartel looks like.

Last time I was in the US it was pretty bad, I'm not sure comparing to the worst is fair but compared to Europe it's not so great - at the time I had T-Mobile but they differentiated different states etc as they may need roaming domestically - you're just not allowed to do that here

What do you mean by except MMS? That's not even data

While unlimited calls/SMS/data* is quite a common offering in Europe, MMS is often not included in such bundles and costs extra.

*Genuinely unlimited data - including tethering, no speed limits or soft caps where you get limited to 128kbps or anything like that after using 100GB.

Correct, advertising unlimited with caps is not allowed, unlike the US for example.

In my case they clearly have to say upfront on the cheaper unlimited, it's not rate limited until X but the caps have to be proportionate so it's still absolutely fine, they do have an "always on" thing for capped packages though, so you're never really cut off (data only which does not have such strict regulation as voice/SMS)

Technically it is data, but it's an archaic system that really should just go away and be replaced by something native to IMS/LTE+ but unfortunately legacy is hard to kill

What makes you think it's for temporary use? I've been using it for over a year as my only data plan.

Is the price cheap enough to do that? Last time I looked it was much cheaper to go with a local carrier almost anywhere I looked.

Cheap is relative. I pay about $25 for 20GB, which lasts me a month. Yeah, local SIM cards might have cheaper options, but I'm not complaining about $25 a month. I spend more on a single lunch.

The cost. The prices are very high.

I don't consider $25 for 20GB to be "very high". Of course, you can find cheaper. But $25 is less than a lunch in most places.

A lunch is most definitely not close to as high as $25 "in most places" unless you go for upscale fine dining, considering that $25 is above global daily median income.

Vodafone in Germany was happy to give me an eSIM for a prepaid plan, not even a store visit required (but it did require taking a photo of my ID and a identity verification video call where someone checks your video against the ID). I guess with AI-based video manipulation, a store visit may be required in the future...

> a store visit may be required in the future...

Or not, considering how store employees are treated and paid. It's probably much cheaper to bribe some low-level clerk than build & deploy a convincing AI spoofing solution.

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