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Comment by ulrashida | Hacker News Reader

If you have materials to this effect, please share with the class. Your statement of "lithium ion packs are far more dangerous than gas stoves or general use of electricity" seems a bit far fetched.

From casual review, it appears that the greatest risk for fire in households remains: cooking equipment, heating equipment, smoking, and inadequate electrical wiring (extensions cords, overdrawn circuits, etc.).

This leaves off other majors like kids with matches, candles, flammable liquids, etc.

Note: This is not to say that LiIon batteries are safe and beyond reproach. The Toronto fire service had 29 battery-related fires in 2022, up from 11 in 2021. This compares vs. 254 "cooking equipment" fires, 158 "open flames / smokers" fires, and 77 "electrical distribution" fires (2019 figures). This suggests lithium ion batteries are a source of domestic fires, but not a major one (~2% of causes).

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> Your statement of "lithium ion packs are far more dangerous than gas stoves or general use of electricity" seems a bit far fetched.

I wish. I've installed distribution panels and gas gear and none of that comes close to working on a sizeable Lithium Ion pack in terms of risk.

If you don't believe me that is something I can not help but there are other commenters in this thread who back that up, surely the people that actually did this stuff have some relevant experience?

The stats are what they are because of the relative distribution of e-bikes vs gas stoves and such. What should worry you is that the number of e-bikes is still relatively low vs the number of gas stoves.

As for sharing the document, I'd love to but there is no email address visible in your profile, could you supply one please?

Unfortunately I don't disclose emails through public forums for privacy reasons. If you can share the title of the document it may be indexed somewhere on the web?

As for the statement, as a professional I do tend to believe other professionals. Ultimately the statistics don't lie: lithium ion related fires are a minority of current household causes. To your point, that may change over time particularly where larger installations (e-bikes, solar system batteries) are involved. I'll pitch that the regulatory regime is more than capable of catching up and enforcing change if the degree of risk starts to go up. We already see fire departments commenting on it, so it won't be long before we start seeing guidelines and restrictions on battery sizes within homes.

Ok.

I haven't published it yet, and will probably do so in the near future so if you read HN regularly you'll see it sooner or later.

Looking forward to it!

Hi, could you please share your notes with me? I've put my email in my profile.

yes, of course, I will send it.

Edit: sent! should be in your inbox, happy reading.

I have far more lithium batteries on my desk than I do gas appliances on my entire property.

I'm not an outlier either. Most of us carry at least one fragile lithium polymer battery on our person at all times.

I understand that larger packs like those on my bicycle are more energetic, but I'm still not convinced that it is more dangerous than something as mundane as the grill on my patio, and the stats seem to back this up.

The point is, though, that both are pretty safe as long as some standard safety protocols are followed. Should you be allowed to spot weld 18650s on your kitchen counter? no. But you also shouldn't be building experimental grills in your living room either, or playing with gasoline.

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