Comment by screye | Hacker News Reader

Comment by screye | Hacker News Reader

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American scale and polarization make it impossible to have moderate conversations around social tools like unions.

A union doesn't need to be a mediocrity enforcing, all-encompassing beaurocracy.

Programmers don't need a union to ensure fair pay or minimum hours. Our concerns are different, and a limited union can help.

Eg:

1. Programmers need to be given 6 months heads up before big change in employment situation. (RTO, city change, etc).

2. On call hours on weekends need to be compensated as overtime.

3. Unused vacation must be compensated as overtime by year end. This also means that unlimited vacation policies should come with miminum compensable vacation days.

4. Standard minimum maternity & paternity leave policies. Also, additional compensation if layoff occurs after notice of mat/pat leave or soon after mat/pat leave.

5. All meetings from noon-1pm should have compensated food.

6. Any meetings after 11pm (of contracted timezone) should be compensated as overtime.

7. If an employee has to live more than a 1 hour rush-hour commute from work AND a company cannot find nearer housing for them at some standard rental amount, then the commute should be fully paid for.

None of these are unreasonable and all will benefit everyone. You can have students get union membership in undergrad. Universities can enforce entry permissions to career fairs on union compliance.

Now, absolute power corrupts absolutely. As vital as unions are, limiting their powers to valid areas is just as vital. That portion I still don't have figured out.

1. I got cut from my company during the holidays in 2016. I had a job less than a month later and was double paid for some days while the severance overlap with the new job.

2. This one is interesting to me, but also might be mildly insulting to a laborer fighting for it because they actually get tired at the end of a day's work. On call is stressful, but it's first world stressful. Furthermore, you can usually do something about it to make sure that the app gets more stable over time.

3. Again this would be interesting, but I feel no loss. The company gives me an opportunity to use the vacation days, and if I am cut from the company mid-year I am paid for the vacation days I didn't use for that year. Although at my current company This is all theoretical anyway because I am given unlimited vacation days. I know unlimited vacation days are bad and come with their own caveats, but hey, if you don't want unlimited vacation days to become the norm, Don't legislate around vacation days.

4. I'm actually pretty comfortable with this one for maternity, but men really don't need much paternity. Most of the five weeks paternity leave I was given I just screwed around and home. I need 3 days, tops.

5. Our work is flexible enough nature that we can just eat at 1:00 most of the time.

6. If your company is having you do meetings at 11:00 p.m. you can just switch companies.

7. The commute is fully paid for. You knew what you were signing up for when you started the job and they fully pay for it in your salary.

A lot of these justifications sound like, " if you make enough money, you can't complain".

Also,Yes, some people, some of the time don't need these protections. Switch it to an early in career person in a terrible economy and things become quite different.

> mildly insulting to a laborer fighting for it because they actually get tired at the end of a day's work

I dont understand this one

> men really don't need much paternity

The first year of children is a sleepless affair. It is difficult for a mother to do the heavy lifting by herself. Additionally, if the woman wants to go back to work in a few months, then that's a good time for the man to take paternity leave and step up.

Those are law in many countries, you do not need unions for that, you need a social democracy.

It's unclear to me how social democracy could be achieved without a labor movement.

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