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Comment by tux3 | Hacker News Reader

The newer versions of Windows seem to care less and less about what the user prefers.

This is emblematic in the message boxes that offer a choice between Yes and Not Now/Maybe Later. It takes real effort to make Windows accept a No.

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I'm no dogmatic, soapbox-spewin' free software acolyte, but at this point using Windows just feels somehow degrading. It's like a bad night in Vegas. Like being trapped inside the Daily Mail.

Thank God for all of you free software types, or I'd have nothing to boot instead!

Bouncing between Windows 11, Windows 10, Steamdeck, macOS, Android, it feels like Windows 11 and macOS are both in a race to the bottom in different ways. Windows can do everything I throw at it and more at the cost of knowing dark voodoo to excise it's demons and paying for "Pro". Apple seems intent on ignoring basics like regressing multi-montior support, bad screen scaling options, and horrible 3rd party peripheral support. Android only works for me because of Nova launcher. Don't mind me as I clutch my SteamOS device close, it does one thing, but does it well.

I built a new computer a few months back and made the mistake of buying Windows 11. The amount of effort it took to get to work the way I want made me really feel like I could have just spent the same energy on a Linux operating system. Thank God for Valve and all of the effort they are putting into making Linux gaming viable.

No kidding. I have plenty of complaints about Mac and Linux, but JFC Microsoft! At this point I can't imagine I'll ever buy another windows machine. These days it's like Microsoft is trying as hard as they can to insult and drive away users.

> or I'd have nothing to boot instead!

Don't be too happy as SecureBoot will not make you want too long until required to register your free software in some 3-4 letter government agency to be able to boot it. At least in Europe.

The European Union and Europe are not synonymous.

Switzerland has strong privacy laws because it’s a country ruled by its people, not by political bureaucrats.

It is not inevitable that we will lose our rights. Don’t give up, don’t spread a defeatist attitude. Work towards improving the democratic system.

Any such system is fatally corrupted by NYMBYzm and for money.

There are literally no hope for any democratic system against corporations with billions on their accounts. Any meaningful principle cannot withstand years of erosion via libbying.

Fatalism is a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Any basis for these claims?

I suggest you fly to Zürich. It's like stepping into a bright future.

Go visit Switzerland. Reply after you return.

Windows 7 (Pro/Ultimate) will probably remain the least bad Windows ever released. Shame.

I miss Windows 7 so much. Apart from the slightly dated, although not bad UI, it would hold up just fine today if they didn't abandon it.

No junkware pre-installed, consistent settings interfaces (not three ways to configure a setting), and no telemetry or dark patterns.

> and no telemetry

Wrong. Look in Scheduled Tasks.

I came to love aero as well

Somehow it was snappier, on older hardware, then the flat monocolor designs that followed it.

With a bit of work to nerf some of the telemetry and dumb stuff, I liked 10 as much as 7. I won't say you're wrong.

Windows 10: From my Cold, Dead Hands.

Win 7 is the only version of Windows that I think is actually good.

When it's as good as it can be, any change makes it worse.

Precisely why I’m on a Windows 10 install that hasn’t been updated in nearly 2 years.

“yes but those updates contain security patches!”

If three letter agencies or foreign state sponsored hackers want my Baldur’s Gate 3 save files that bad, they can have them.

Otherwise I’m not installing Linkin_Park_Numb.mp3.exe or raw dogging Russian URLs in my spam folder so it’s tough to care.

Bitdefender tells me when something tries to send a packet or if a exe changes.

> If three letter agencies or foreign state sponsored hackers want my Baldur’s Gate 3 save files that bad, they can have them.

> Otherwise I’m not installing Linkin_Park_Numb.mp3.exe or raw dogging Russian URLs in my spam folder so it’s tough to care.

I doubt you are, but you may be unaware how many online games have vulnerabilities. There are many avenues to malware.

All the CVE bros just fainted reading this

Windows is a hot mess in this regard.

Apple still irks me, though. Boot Safari, go and download Chrome. Install it. Which isn't silent, and requires multiple manual steps. Boot Chrome.

"Do you really want to use Chrome? (paraphrasing) Keep using Safari (the default option) or Switch to Chrome"

You know the user didn't accidentally download and install and start Chrome. Don't fucking ask.

> Don't fucking ask.

(A) what is it actually asking though. Paraphrasing doesn't help here. Is it asking about changing the default? Is it asking if you want to run it?

(B) google has a notorious history of pushing people to install chrome from their other properties, and it seems plausible that chrome is in fact the latest iteration of user-installed malware that a reasonable number of people install without really knowing why.

The user might want to install Chrome without making it the default browser.

Chrome doesn't, and can't, install itself as the default in one step. Setting it as the default is a separate explicit action that the user has had to agree to. But Apple insists on asking separately to "make sure".

They are just forcing you to provide reasons for you not wanting to use their software, so they can change it in a way that makes you want to use it.

If that doesn't work, maybe they will use more hostile methods of coercion. For example, they could make it a service that restarts every 5 minutes after you kill it. They could also prevent you from disabling the service.

* They are just forcing you to provide reasons for you not wanting to use their software, so they can change it in a way that makes you want to use it.*

The only way to make me want to use it is to change in a way that they do not force me to provide reasons for me not wanting to use their software.

The irony is that they do care about what the user prefers. All this telemetry and the surveys are to better understand user habits and preferences so they can make their software better. Unfortunately, they are so out of touch and ignorant that the methods they use are the exact bullshit users don't want.

> The irony is that they do care about what the user prefers.

I doubt it. They probably care about things that are easy to measure like "engagement with the feature". Doesn't matter if the user is spitting mad the whole time.

> The irony is that they do care about what the user prefers

I guess you haven't used Microsoft products for long enough. They don't give a s** for what the user prefers. Their GUI is antiuser.

"Better" is subjective and not the term I would use in this context.

You're being way more charitable than MSFT deserves here. And I'm usually one of those guys defending MSFT on HN.

All the people they should be tracking block it

I would expect that some people are genuinely working really hard on making the UX better. But there are equally powerful forces of people who see how they can enrich themselves by actively making the UX worse. It is difficult to underestimate the effectiveness of a sociopathic manager who sees a path to making money at everyone’s expense.

I think MS sees that Google is and has been making huge profits over the years by simply pushing advertising on us.

I assume MS is now going in that direction too. The signs are there, more and more ads in Windows.

And the ads are no longer just 'ads". They are interactive ads, which tell their provider much about people's preferences, which data can then be used, or sold.

But with google this is the price you pay to use their products. With Microsoft you pay for the product and they still collect your data and push adverts on you.

They are going to remove Windows Calendar in 2024 and force replace it with Outlook. Out of curiosity I clicked the opt in "preview" for this change and it opens Outlook, which I have never used, and wouldn't let me do anything unless I "linked" my Gmail address. Just so I could open a calendar.

So I closed it and when I need to look at the calendar now, I use my Macbook instead.

It's so infuriating how Windows is turning into a total shitshow lately.

i didn't realize they were getting rid of the calendar too. I wonder what is making all this anticonsumer stuff happen at once

"Old" Outlook (including the newest versions) is pretty good (once you've accepted top-posting and HTML email as inevitable). But "new" Outlook is just Office365, which is a dramatic step down from local, native Outlook.

> "Old" Outlook (including the newest versions) is pretty good

I'm glad someone likes it! Outlook has been one of my most hated programs for years now.

> message boxes that offer a choice between Yes and Not Now/Maybe Later

I barely have words to describe how much I hate this.

> It takes real effort to make Windows accept a No.

At work I open the task manager and just start assassinating processes left and right. I wish they'd give me administrator access so I could fix this thing permanently.

> It takes real effort to make Windows accept a No.

Not just windows. People, especially in business, are not ready to deal with reality. See the whole "No means no" Debacle

> message boxes that offer a choice between Yes and Not Now/Maybe Later

These are showing up more and more in macOS and iOS as well. Absolutely infuriating. UX designed by marketers.

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