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Comment by zemvpferreira | Hacker News Reader

Not to dimish the problem but to add my own experience, consider that a delayed sleep onset can be confused with bedtime procrastination.

My circadian rythm tends to 25-26 hours. Every day I feel sleepy 2 hours later than the day before. That means every day I'm tempted to delay my bedtime by 2 hours because I don't feel sleepy at all. For the longest time I though the my difficulty falling asleep was habitual/emotional/hygienic.

After a decade of experimentation with caffeine, lighting, food, meditation, journaling, restricted sleep etc etc etc the best solution for me by far has been a low-dose melatonin supplement one hour before my desired bedtime. As long as I do that I hardly ever stay up longer than I should, and go to sleep immediately. Food for thought if you have chronic trouble falling asleep and don't feel like there's anything terribly 'off' about your habits.

(If I'm anxious/stressed I still sleep badly)

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Absolutely agreed. I've had some type of insomnia on and off most of my life, last year was particularly bad. Started taking melatonin, first day I fell asleep and rested like I couldn't for the past year. Asked my doctor about and he told me to keep taking it as long as I felt it worked, since anything he could give would be much much more addictive

Is there a name for this circadian misalignment? I've never done any serious testing but over time have experienced the same realization, that my ideal day seems to be longer than 24 hours.

There is some research and some terminology but not a whole lot of conclusive stuff.

Look up circadian rhythm sleep disorders, non-24-hour sleep–wake disorder, delayed sleep phase disorder, free running sleep.

The name is "being human", and it's probably not pathological: subjects kept in environments without external timekeepers (such as sunrise/sunset or clocks even) tend to keep a 25 hour circadian rhythm.

Our bodies respond strongly to food and light and caffeine. Food when you wake up, and darkness as you're going to sleep.

Remember that caffeine has a half-life of up to 9 hours, so if you're having trouble winding down at bedtime, that might be attributable to the cup of coffee or soda you had at lunchtime.

Up to 9 hours? More like 4-6 AFAIK

The problem I've seen with sleep/caffeine research is that most of it is done with non-habitual doses.

Half-life might be such and such, but people who drink a coffee after dinner for 20 years sleep better than non-coffee-drinkers who have an espresso after lunch that one time.

Anecdotal, but exactly.

I drink roughly a pot of coffee a day. Keeps me in the game.

Just one more at dinner is not going to keep me awake at night. Maybe another pot, but that's still a maybe.

I used to drink yerba mate almost daily (higher caffeine content than average coffee) because I thought it kept me in the game. At one point I had to go on very strict diet due to health issue so took one week break. I never felt urge to drink it again, my avg energy levels are higher, and anxiety levels lower since stopping (2 months so far)

Speculation: I'd expect a huge selection effect w.r.t. caffeine half-life. If your physiology yields a really long caffeine half-life, you won't drink as much because it keeps you from sleeping. These people will show up in studies as "not habitual users"

Not speculation *up to* 9 hours. Your Mileage Will Vary. My point was for people who aren't sleeping well, who should be extra aware of the stimulants they're taking and how long they can be active.

4-6 hours is also pretty long, which means there aren't very many lambdas between that afternoon cup and when you're trying to go to bed.

Revisit that expectation. When I sequenced my DNA years ago, I discovered that I'm a slow caffeine metaboliser (longer half-life than most) AND I'm in the population likely to drink the most coffee - I drink 5 cups per day currently, my grandpa drank 24 at his peak.

Does this occur for you even when you get exposure to bright sunlight after waking, and turning off the lights at 9PM or so?

You "listen" to anything or silence?

On melatonin? I'm on YouTube until my head is too heavy to hold up (a novel experience).

Off melatonin? I tried silence among other things but it just makes me either bored or anxious. No way to spend 5-10% of your day.

U ever tried listening to an anchor piece or book that you listen to every night ritualistically? I feel like it works equally well for children and adults. Everyone loves a story they've heard a million times that tells their body implicitly its time for nighty bye bye :)

Edit: also, you ever try cutting the visual so there's only audio? Try it and report back ;)

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