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Comment by ilrwbwrkhv | Hacker News Reader

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The Palestinian people and cause has both Muslims and Christians. Most zionists are secular Jewish people. This isn't about religion, but, land.

Hamas statements have said it's about killing Jews and it being the moral duty of Palestinians to do that and sacrifice their children to the cause. It's religious in at least one direction.

It was about land once. I suspect, to throw the exact level of thinking on the table by these people, about as worthy as a meme at this point.

Any source for Hamas saying it wants to kill Jews. I read it was in their charter but they removed it ~20 years ago

There's also their senior official saying they will essentially repeat the Oct 7 attack until Israel is completely destroyed

https://news.yahoo.com/hamas-member-says-repeat-attacks-0656...

Destroying Israel is different from killing Jews. One is replacing a government, which is not necessarily evil. The other is killing people, which is. Advocating violent attacks is the evil thing he does, not advocating replacement of the government.

What bothers me about many of these discussions is that the two are so often conflated. When somebody carries a Nazi Swastika or calls for violence against Jews, that is antisemitic. When somebody opposes Israel, that is not. https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2023-12-12/antisemitis...

You're right, destroying Israel Hamas-style (as described in https://news.yahoo.com/hamas-member-says-repeat-attacks-0656...) is different from killing Jews. One involves Hamas re-committing the unspeakable monstrosities of Oct 7th again and again, and another is just regular murder.

Congrats on writing the most ignorantly hateful comment I've ever seen on HN.

You put words in my mouth. I won't congratulate you on creating the most ignorantly hateful comment out of whole cloth that I've ever seen on HN.

> Destroying Israel is different from killing Jews

Israel exists because of the much-repeated global pogroms against Jews. The Mizrahi Jews fled Yemen, Morocco, and other Muslim countries because of antisemitic persecution. Beta Israel fled the Mengistu regime in Ethiopia, which threatened a Jewish genocide. Those Jews had that option because of the existence of Israel, a country located in the ancestral homeland of the Jews.

I sincerely believe that fighting for the destruction of Israel is akin to antisemitism. Because what will happen when the next round of Pogroms and genocides roll around? It's been happening for thousands of years, and as recently as the 70s. Jews need a safe country.

> Jews need a safe country.

Does that justify taking land from others by force, instituting occasional pogroms on those who are displaced? Europe and North America have countries with stable governments that protect people from violence and accept refugees and allow them to purchase land legally without violence.

It was removed from their 2017 charter but they still do "pay for slay"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_Authority_Martyrs_...

You will not find any current or reliable source for this line of propaganda.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_Authority_Martyrs_...

https://news.yahoo.com/hamas-member-says-repeat-attacks-0656...

Zionism has at the start and to this day major support from Christian institutions as well

This has nothing to do with religion.

Palestinians, like any other people, will fight colonizers, regardless of their religion.

Hitchens was brilliant but also seemingly rather unselfconscious of how his atheistic zealotry mirrored the religious dogmatism that he constantly railed against. This is the paradox of religious criticism: the more you accuse of others of ignorant dogmatism, the more you become exactly what you accuse the other of.

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