Comment by solson | Hacker News Reader

Comment by solson | Hacker News Reader

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Yes college was more affordable and for many it is unaffordable today. Young people and parents need to seriously consider forgoing college entirely, that will be the only thing that will force the price down. These parents and students freely choose to pay these absurd tuition fees. Until you stop paying them, they will keep raising them.

Cars in 1984 are not comparable to cars in 2012. There are many emissions and safety requirements on modern cars that have forced the price up. Also the reliability and quality of most modern cars far exceeds 1984 models. Most young people would not want anything like a 1984 car. Ford Pintos were cheap, problem is they exploded when they were rear ended.

Housing is expensive, but it depends where you choose to live. Hip areas have always been expensive. Toronto wasn't hip in 1984 and nor was silicon valley. In Mpls I rented a decent 2 bedroom apartment in 1986 for $550 per month, the same apartment today rents for $850. if you want to live near the "cool" people it will cost you.

> Young people and parents need to seriously consider forgoing college entirely, that will be the only thing that will force the price down.

That's definitely a problem I've seen with my peers. They go just because their parents expect it of them. I can't find the article (it was on HN maybe 6 months ago) that compared college majors in the mid 80's to 2011. While useful stuff like CS stayed relatively flat, the majors that skyrocketed were things like Liberal Arts. Those are the people making college expensive for all of us.

One real way to bring prices down would be to attend community college for 1-2 years. It's extremely cost effective, easily transferable, and designed for working adults so the schedules are often more flexible than traditional college.

While useful stuff like CS stayed relatively flat, the majors that skyrocketed were things like Liberal Arts.

Liberal arts degrees are also relatively flat, depending on how you want to count them: the major rise was in business, which accounts for about a quarter of U.S. undergrad degrees. Communications has also risen enormously.

(See Academically Adrift and Louis Menand's The Marketplace of Ideas for more details. Note that the former also finds that liberal arts majors actually make large, measurable improvements in learning over their first two years of college, while business majors, as a group, don't.)

Liberal arts education is both useful and costs relatively little compared to technical education. My history degree isn't making anyone's CS tuition rise.

Tuitions have been rising primarily because state governments have been reducing subsidies to higher education -- thanks to pressures elsewhere in the budget, like pension obligations. Generous federal loan policies and capital expenditures on non-essentials like swanky 'luxury dorms' haven't helped.

This is the source you are looking for - http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2011/11/col...

That's it! Much appreciated.

Maybe but the thing is that people you mention also go to expensive schools because of the prestige, not the learning part, so you wont be able to convince them of going to a community college.

Well, yeah that's exactly it. It's almost entirely a reputation thing.

The problem is that cars and housing are to a large degree unsubstitutable goods. When lobster became a delicacy instead of prison food, wardens weren't wondering how they could afford the newly expensive goods, they were substituting them for cheaper replacements.

> Young people and parents need to seriously consider forgoing college entirely

What a political football: As this gets worse, can you imagine everything politicians will have to argue about as regards "Getting our children back into college so they can remain competitive in the New Global Economy"? And would you want to be the only person at a podium questioning whether college is necessary after all?

James Altucher has written a few postings about this issue:

http://www.jamesaltucher.com/2010/02/dont-send-your-kids-to-...

http://www.jamesaltucher.com/2011/01/10-more-reasons-why-par...

http://www.jamesaltucher.com/2011/01/8-alternatives-to-colle...

He seems reasonably coherent, although it goes against the conventional wisdom.

It's not something you can legislate away, unfortunately. It requires a sea change in societal perceptions- apprenticeship programs need to come back and be viewed as just as worthy an alternative to going to university. (Germany is an example of a country that still values apprenticeships) Companies to need to offer more paid, meaningful internships need to be offered instead of unpaid menial makework. And whatever happening to IBM's traditional idea of training someone to become a programmer?

When I hear about the "New Global Economy," especially as it relates to discussions on schooling, I wonder: are we saying that the economy from now on is going to be more cutthroat, more demanding? When people say that I wonder why some seem to take as a given that life is going to be even harder than ever and we need education to help young people survive. The very assumption that one will need to be ever more skilled to get the same level of job is scary.

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