Hacker News Reader

Comment by grannyg00se | Hacker News Reader

"If there is no bike lane, something like 90% of the cars simply do not give a single shit about bikes."

You have to respect the culture in which you are immersed. It seems insane to me that cyclists would even consider riding on a road that has no bike lane.

Right or wrong, the existence of bike lanes sets up a dichotomy in people's minds. Either there is a bike lane and bikes belong there (and I have to be aware of them), or there is no bike lane and bikes do not belong (I won't be expecting them - I may even resent their presence).

Pedestrians have their place, and cars have their place. Bikes have their place, but unfortunately only on a few select roadways.

View on HN

Actually that is not entirely true. (at least in Europe)

As per the law, if there is no bike lane, bikes belong on the road as normal vehicles. If there is a bike lane, they belong on the bike lane, but must still follow all the normal traffic rules as normal vehicles.

Except that, as is mentioned in the OP, in the US cyclists are legally allowed use most all roadways and are treated legally like an automobile in cases where a bike lane does not exist.

That may be the case, legally. But as the OP indicates, that is not always the case, culturally.

But if bicycles are treated like motor vehicles, why is it that you often find them creating a lane where there is none? You don't often see motorcycles riding alongside cars, in the same lane, grazing parked vehicles.

I'm not 100% sure what you're describing, but it sounds like you are talking about a situation where a cyclist is riding on the far right side of the lane next to the parked cars and is being passed in the same lane by other cars. What sounds dangerous to me about this situation is not that the cyclist is creating his own lane (because he's not, he's in the proper right most lane), but rather that cars are trying to pass him (a vehicle that is legally allowed to be there) without leaving enough room.

Also, kind of off topic, but where I'm from (California), motorcycles are legally allowed to weave between lanes and do it all the time. Not that I think this is a particularly smart think to do :)

If the cyclist was in the center of the lane it wouldn't look like he's trying to "create a lane". And cars wouldn't try to pass in the same lane in that case because it wouldn't be possible. They would wait until it is safe to pass properly. Or get really pissed off and try to intimidate the cyclist to move over, but that goes back to my point about culture and not belonging.

Being legally allowed to weave between lanes doesn't seem right.

Being legally allowed to weave between lanes doesn't seem right.

Yeah, I'm not really sure why it's legal, but I've also never ridden a motorcycle. A quick glance at Wikipedia suggests that it's legal in most of Europe and Japan though, although not in most places in the US.

Anyway, FWIW, I commute by bike and ride in the center of the lane when there is no bike lane for the exact reason that you describe. However, I don't really get what you are saying about "not belonging". Cars and bikes are both legally allowed on the same roads. Just because this inconveniences some drivers doesn't mean that bikes are "culturally unacceptable". In other words, the opinion of said drivers (legally, and I'd argue culturally) is no more important than that of the bikers who think that it's a totally acceptable thing for them to be there so long as they follow traffic laws.

I'm not trying to imply that the inconvenience makes them unacceptable. That they are culturally unacceptable is a fact - stated by the OP as : "cars simply do not give a single shit about bikes". I'm simply trying to provide an explanation for why that may be.

I suppose people downvote because they dislike my explanations. I think it is reasonable to think that many motorists don't feel that cyclists belong on the same road space. As a cyclist, I wouldn't feel that I belong on the same road space as cars. That's why I haven't ridden a bike since moving to a city where the sidewalks are busy.

In some states (for example Illinois), bicycles are required by law to stay to the far right of their lane, which makes it look like they are "creating a lane".

Reply on news.ycombinator.com