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Comment by itsoktocry | Hacker News Reader

>I see more Teslas coming on the roads around here then any other EV (not as many cybertrucks though).

Because we can't buy vehicles from the Chinese competition.

>However Tesla is still far ahead of the competition

Are they?

Did anyone catch the recent All In Podcast? They were talking about Tesla's robotaxi lead, so Calacanis showed them a video of Waymo operating robotaxis today and Chamath and Sacks had literally never seen it before; "This is amazing!".

Pretty easy to believe Tesla is the leader when you don't know what's out there.

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No I don't listen to All-in I can't stand listening to any of that self-indulgent nonsense.

FYI - because Chamath and Sacks haven't heard of Waymo operating robo taxis before (which is mind-blowing that they didn't know that considering a good portion of their job is an alternative take on the news) does not mean the rest of the world doesn't.

Tesla is indeed way ahead on self-driving.

In terms of Chinese EVs - that will certainly bring in a lot more competition but they aren't the same class of vehicles. It's like comparing fiat 500 and an audi a6.

In what metrics is Tesla ahead on self driving? Waymo has been operating (actual self driving) in SF for years without major incidents, and has been doing revenue service for nearly a year now. Tesla has shown nothing even remotely close to the level of self driving as Waymo, even in a controlled environment.

For actual self driving, Tesla is going to need a fully revamped sensor package on the car, as well as major updates to their core software. Id be shocked if they are operating revenue service within even a few years

I haven't seen Waymo videos for a few years, but can they do things on highways the way Teslas can? I've only seen a couple of around-town videos, so I don't know.

Mercedes and BMW are offering driver assistance you can buy today that is more advanced than Tesla on the freeway. Tesla is in no way a leader in automated driving.

Sorry - I don't see how either of those sentences is relevant.

Apparently yes now: https://www.theverge.com/2024/1/8/24029932/waymo-driverless-...

Interesting! I don't know loads about self driving cars, but my understanding was that Tesla's self driving has done a lot of freeway miles, and not just in a small simple area.

"Tesla miles" are also a misleading metric because they don't factor in all the times the driver has to take back control over the vehicle to ensure safe operation, it's just the sum of arbitrary stretches of self driving that don't represent true autonomous operation.

I agree it's not the same, but that's sort of my point. Tesla's gone for global usage, with automatic deactivation, whereas Waymo has done a very specific area of roads built in a similar style. It's broad vs deep, is what I mean.

> whereas Waymo has done a very specific area of roads built in a similar style

How are steep and hilly roads of San Francisco similar in style to flat, grid-like roads of Phoenix?

Well, for example if you drive in Europe you'll see much narrower roads, way more pedestrians and crossings; all sorts of things.

Right, so what you really mean is urban vs highway driving. In self driving, urban driving is considered much more challenging precisely because of the characteristics you listed. That's why you see Waymo only now dipping into highway driving because the primary taxi market is all inside busy cities.

> Right, so what you really mean is urban vs highway driving

No, I don't mean that.

Then I’m afraid you’re unclear because the cities Waymo operates in all have different characteristics and don’t have “similar style of roads”. Driving in SF is very different from driving in Phoenix.

Waymo is currently doing a huge amount of testing on the freeway. But also, Waymo is fully autonomous in the entirety of San Francisco (and a few other cities). Its not just an assist program that you have to keep your eyes on, its a legit full self driving system, leagues above Tesla's.

> They were talking about Tesla's robotaxi lead, so Calacanis showed them a video of Waymo operating robotaxis today and Chamath and Sacks had literally never seen it before; "This is amazing!".

... Why on earth would anyone listen to this? I mean, based on this, it's people who don't know even the very basics of the market talking about it anyway.

(I'm still struggling with the idea of _Jason Calacanis_ being the voice of reason, in any context...)

Also Chamath the "SPAC king" who made his money on the transactions selling garbage companies to the masses as someone being quoted as a source on anything is right there with Calcanis.

Best selling cars in 2023 -- BYD isn't even top 3 right now. Tesla is back in China as luxury brand.

Model Y: 1.23 M Rav 4: 1.07 M Corolla: 1.01 M

https://www.best-selling-cars.com/brands/2023-full-year-glob...

https://www.theverge.com/2023/5/26/23738581/tesla-model-y-ev...

BYD have about 30 models, is the thing. Tesla have gone with a rather unusual product strategy for a car maker; four models, of which two have negligible sales. Realistically, any large manufacturer who went down this road could take that crown away from them, though it probably would not be a good idea for that manufacturer to do that.

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