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Comment by klyrs | Hacker News Reader

When LGBT denizens of states, universities, countries, and websites are threatened, dehumanized and scapegoated, HN is quick to defend the freedom of speech. We, too, were killed in the same camps during the Holocaust. What makes you so special, that a feeling of an "element of antisemitism" justifies police brutality in response to peaceful assembly, when threats to my livelihood are so trivially brushed away? Your ask that people not be permitted to even "hold antisemitic views" is odious in the extreme; I would never ask for such policing of wrongthink on the LGBT Question, even as it is debated in courts and legislatures across the country.

Now do Islamophobia. Without insinuating that defending the freedom of religion is equivalent to support for Hamas, please.

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It's a fine line. I support the right of people to express their opinion. But taking over public spaces and making threats is not that. Also hateful speech is not that. I can't control what people think but when that thinking is expressed in public on signs and in speeches that's not ok.

If anti LGBTQ+ groups took over part of a university and had offensive signs and chants would you support their right for free speech? Is that sort of the analogy we're looking for here? Did that happen or did I miss it? This is not about policing people's minds. Breaking into a hall in Columbia e.g. is not free speech.

I agree there should be zero police brutality against lawful protests and when laws are broken police should still pursue the least violent methods to ensure law and order.

No, the exact same thing isn't happening, don't be daft. Rather, politicians are attempting to legislate people like me out of existence, and the lack of public protest is deafening. You're worried about some protesters in some well-demarked zones, I'm worried about state-sanctioned violence. No, these are not the same.

Targeted anti-LGBT violence is on the rise. Literal book burnings are underway. Our voices are being censored. It is legal to discriminate against us in employment, as students in schools, and even as patients hospitals. I get verbally assualted in public on account of my cultural identity on a regular basis. And I live in a progressive major metropolitan city.

I'm sad that Jewish people are experiencing this today, but my friend, you are late to the party. How late? It was the nation of Israel that forbade homosexuality some 3000 years ago. Before your people's story of persecution even began, we were being persecuted by your law.

But it doesn't justify censorship, revoking the freedom of speech, nor the freedom of peaceful assembly. Be careful where you read about this violence, because anti-Islam is a popular sentiment amongst anti-Palestine protests, and when the cops start a fight with or between protesters, they're writing history.

Jews, Blacks, LGBT, and other minorities should naturally align together to protect values of freedom. I agree we see anti-Palestinian-ism from the right wing that is coupled with other toxic behaviour. What I see in the anti-Israeli left-wing camp is departure from the values they claim to support.

And come on now, you're not blaming the Jews for anti-LGBTQ+ sentiments. The Jewish people have moved on from what's happened 3000 years ago while in Iraq and Iran today (e.g.) those are criminals. In Tel-Aviv and Jersualem there are yearly gay parades and in the Arab countries they jail and kill gays.

The crazy thing is that I as a Jewish person need to contemplate voting for right wing politicians because I feel the left wing is assaulting my people.

> Jews, Blacks, LGBT, and other minorities should naturally align together to protect values of freedom

Then seek that unity, friend. Do not vote for the people selling violence as a solution to fear that they have fabricated. And especially do not sacrifice our freedoms at the altar of fear. Now is the time for solidarity and bravery in the face of powers that would divide and conquer us.

https://lite.cnn.com/2024/05/02/opinions/university-of-texas...

> Jews, Blacks, LGBT, and other minorities should naturally align together to protect values of freedom.

Should do, yeah; but I've known anti-Black Jews, antisemitic Blacks, racist-af queers; etc. Clarence Goddamn Thomas.

> And come on now, you're not blaming the Jews for anti-LGBTQ+ sentiments.

History is a real motherfucker, isn't it? Yes, modern Israel is a lot more tolerant of us today, but do not pretend that the Israeli right wing -- the party in power today -- has any love for me. As of 2023[1], 43% of Israelis were opposed to gay marriage. If Israel was in Europe, the anti-gay sentiment is on par with Nazi-ass Hungary.

And there's the rub; modern Israel is a result of Europeans not wanting Jews to live in Europe, and simultaneously seeing Muslims as vermin who should be eradicated -- I won't say that this hot conflict was "all part of the plan" but it sure looks inevitable to me. Queers and Romani were not so convenient; we weren't given a place to go.

> The crazy thing is that I as a Jewish person need to contemplate voting for right wing politicians because I feel the left wing is assaulting my people.

Well, we agree here, that is bat shit crazy. Why did Netanyahu fund Hamas? Seriously, why did Netanyahu fund Hamas? And don't get me wrong, the US is the real big bad guy here -- we meddled in the affairs of the middle east, we funded terrorism, we fought proxy wars with Russia; we collectively brought power to militant Islam. Israel's been a convenient patsy all along. And today, antisemitism is on the rise, in Palestine and the US. Just as Islamophobia is on the rise in Israel and the US.

Are there some antisemitic Palestinians hanging around in anti-Israel protests? Yes. Are there islamophobic Israelis hanging around in anti-Palestinian protests? Yes. Is this extremely natural consequence of an entirely predictable hot war going to make you vote for the party of white nationalism? That is crazy. Read your Niemöller; Republicans are not your friends, they want Jews to continue dying at the front in their war against Islam. And once that's over, you're just a Jew.

Do not mistake radical Islamists for leftists. They're right-wing hard-liners through and through. Just like the Jewish Supremecists in Israel who the actual leftists are gathering to protest. I've been to the encampment at the university in my town, with my Jewish girlfriend, and we saw none of what you're talking about. But what we did see was a lot of protesting against the Israeli government. I do read the news, there are definitely some incidents of Palestinian-aligned antisemitism; it's real, I won't deny it. But in the news, I see a whole lot more criticism of the right-wing government of Israel being portrayed as leftist antisemitism, than actual antisemitism from actual leftists. Be very careful where you get your information.

[1] https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/11/27/how-peopl...

I agree that radical Islamists are on the extreme right. I'm not sure I agree with your analysis of the left. You see protests against the Israeli government in Israel a lot more than you see them out of Israel. It's basically got a 20% approval rating in Israel at the moment. I have not seen those protests you're talking about where people aren't waving Palestinian flags, or chanting "free free Palestine", or "from the river to the sea". I don't consider that to be a left-wing peaceful protest against Israeli government and in support of freedom and human rights. You realize that "Free Palestine" is not going to be a safe place for gay people or anyone else. To me that's a front for militant nationalism. I think what we see on the (extreme?) left is some sort of neo-socialism that is anti-freedom or at least has a different priority order where freedom and human rights are below other items they consider more important. It's like left becomes right when you push hard enough which isn't a surprise. It's no longer liberal-democratic.

The speaker of the Knesset, from the ruling party, is openly gay ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amir_Ohana ). And sure, Israel has its share of "backwards" people and we need to work on that.

> You realize that "Free Palestine" is not going to be a safe place for gay people or anyone else.

Yes, I realize that! We've royally fucked the entire region by supporting terrorist organizations, and by supporting genocidal conquest of Palestine. I think they really have strongly-motivated reason to hate the US, UK, Israel and more; but also, the arms that we provided to religious extremists have entrenched that.

With the IDF bombing playgrounds full of children, does it matter one whit if those kids are gay? You say Palestine won't be safe for anyone -- is it safe for anyone under Israel's current policy?

Get the boot off of Palestine's neck. That's the freedom we're asking for. People love humanitarian aid, when it's done right. Progress can be made. But Israel's current approach is genocide. And that's just as wrong as when it was Nazis throwing you and me in concentration camps.

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