Hacker News Reader

Comment by MisterTea | Hacker News Reader

[flagged]

Right, in Europe there are no unions.

I know sarcasm can be an effective way of making a point, but on a global forum where plenty of people are likely to not have a clue what unions do or don't exist in Europe (not to mention most Europeans won't know much if anything about unions in European countries other than their own) it's worth not being sarcastic so that your comment can be understood by more than just the people who already know what you're saying.

So they all think and operate EXACTLY alike? This must be a joke.

If I am wrong then prove it. This is the statement which I have heard a few times already and a cursory search for "unions blocking better road repair technology" in ddg yields these articles which bolsters my argument:

Tangentially related:

https://uniontrack.com/blog/unions-and-automation

https://www.illinoispolicy.org/union-workers-more-likely-to-...

So unions block innovation by insisting the government pays union-level wages to construction workers.

I can tell you what is the difference between unions in Europe and unions in the US. As far as I can tell, unions and paying fair wages are not blamed for lack of innovation in Europe. We do have a lot of news about the fight over wages, but for some reason this antagonist union bashing in the media and general population seems to still be an American phenomenon.

I think you are conflating anti-union sentiment with legitimate concern that unions put the interest of its members ahead of innovation in the name of keeping people employed. No one said down with unions.

fair wages do not prevent innovation. on the contrary. because unhappy employees will also make innovation difficult. i do believe that unions in europe understand that european companies need to innovate more to compete globally.

but unlike some american unions they do not hold the companies hostage. union shops do not exist. they can not demand that every employee joins the union. they do not control what tasks individual employees are allowed to do. they negotiate contracts and work conditions. that's all.

This isn't about wages. This is about maintaining job security. Any kind of automation which promises less labor and/or less time is interpreted as "we dont need as many people as we did before." This is how a union person views these things - job killers.

If you actually read the pages that you linked, you will see nothing of the sort you describe. One page is literally talking about wages only. The other says that unions want companies to train employees so that they are prepared for automation. Anyway, no use discussing here, because apparently facts don't matter.

ah yes, you are right, i didn't think about that. i have to admit that i can't say how european unions would react here, but i think any negotiation on the issue would be based on the idea that automation is fine as long as it does not cost any jobs, but instead the company makes sure that all employees get reassigned and trained to do alternative work. using automation to increase output instead of producing the same output with less people.

at least in germany unions are also favoring reduction of work hours, which is another way workers can benefit from automation without losing their jobs.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com