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Comment by dr_ | Hacker News Reader

Microsoft is updating it's Surface hardware with ARM chips in a couple of weeks. This would include the Surface Pro 10, which is otherwise excellent save for poor ergonomics if actually laying down and using it on your lap. If they could fix this, it would serve the population looking for a hybrid tablet/laptop device well. (it will also have an oled screen in this upcoming update). Yes, its Windows, but I much prefer the file manager in Windows to Mac, and definitely over ipadOS. They will also be announcing AI related updates in 2 weeks, and I get the feeling MSFT has leapfrogged apple by a year or two on this count.

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The Surface would be quite tempting if Windows 11 weren't so overtly user-hostile.

what is hostile about Windows 11? I'd agree its not the best on non MSFT devices (McAfee anyone?) but on the Surface devices i've found it to run fairly well. It's not as polished as MacOS, but given I mostly operate in the world of web browsers and Office 365, with a couple of Windows based desktop apps, it gets the job done rather well. Would expect major update of Windows 11 later this year, leading into Windows 12. I know it can be turned off, but personally I find myself to be able to focus and get more work done without having imessages on my laptop. I can see how some people might feel otherwise though.

I actually really like Windows 11. In most ways it's as good as macOS, though I think the macOS ecosystem is a bit nicer (e.g. native apps are better, prettier, more consistent).

But, I don't like that ads are in the start menu, that I'm asked to try out Microsoft Edge, or that the built-in search checks the web rather than sticking to my PC.

There's a lot of small points of friction, and it seems that after every major update a new one is added, or my old preferences are ignored. For many of these settings, you need to go into less familiar tools like the group policy editor as opposed to the built-in Settings app.

It feels gross to have paid $200 for a Windows 11 Pro license to then be shoved ads.

This is true. The ads are unnecessary. I don’t understand the stranglehold mcafee has on pc manufacturers. And constantly trying to shove me to edge is annoying, even though I don’t find edge to be too bad as a browser.

While they are some annoyances, I also find Windows 11 to be pretty good (I was a lifelong Mac user previously). And I don't get any ADS after disabling the weather widget so I don't know where you find them really. I literally have zero ads, besides the small nudge to make edge the default browser sometimes when I open it.

Apple is just as bad, routinely having a notification offering me a trial of Apple Fitness even though there is no way I would ever buy that because there is no way I'm going to pay 10 euros a month to have workout planning to use an Apple Watch I already bought from them for a decent amount of money (devices in this price range have this type of stuff built-in).

As far as I'm concerned, Microsoft gets a small pass for the nagging, because at least I didn't even spend a lot of money with them since I didn't buy my windows computer from them.

But Apple is a big no-no. No way you upsell me after selling me a deeply flawed device (partly because the software is an unfocused mess and lacking in many ways, partly because the hardware is not that good for the price).

Surely one can run some sort of Linux disto on these surfaces, no?

I would imagine support might not be 1:1 with all the features as Windows 11 might support, but probably good enough. It'd be a sacrifice I'd be willing to live with.

When I last checked in on Linux running on a 2-in-1 a year or two ago it wasn't good. There are some minor hardware issues with Surfaces specifically (webcam and some other random stuff doesn't work without a ton a work) but what really killed it was the X/Wayland mess. Had tons of showstoppers in tablet mode because some applications wouldn't recognize the OSK, or would trap me in an dialog until I grabbed a mouse and keyboard. There were some distros who's login screen was unusable when touch only as well, but I'd have to dig up my notes to remember which one. Might be time soon for another tablet experience roundup now that there's a new Ubuntu LTS out.

I haven't tried since the Surface Pro 3, so maybe this has changed, but the answer was "yes with major caveats". A quick search suggests this is still the answer. Several bits of hardware[0] still rely on drivers that haven't been upstreamed to the Linux kernel proper yet, so you'd best be prepared to run a custom kernel. Some things like the webcam don't work at all.

And then there's booting. You will probably have to monkey with secure boot, which means dual booting can be a pain. Big, popular distros are starting to support secure boot, so it might just work, but it might not. And I'd be kind of shocked if MS didn't take the opportunity to ditch legacy x86 baggage[1] to completely lock down boot and make it impossible to run anything but Windows.

In summary, on older Surface devices, yes you can run Linux but you have to pretend it's 20 years ago and Linux is still a pain to get running. On ARM? Good luck.

[0] basically all input methods. Touchpad, keyboard, touch, and pen.

[1] and the freedoms such baggage still carries

It's probably possible, but I doubt it's something I'd want to do.

At this point, I am sorry to say but Windows is spyware. M$ turned into an ad machine.

File manager in macos is better imo because its just a unix distro under the hood with a sexy gui, and you don’t need to learn powershell or install wsl. It works out of the box. Same old bash you always knew.

If they get close enough to Apple M* processors and I can run Linux on it and not have to deal with Windows, they get my money.

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