Hacker News Reader

Comment by OJFord | Hacker News Reader

I'm not sure I understand why what you describe isn't just the behaviour of the system? Even a mechanical system (take two connected cogs on separate shafts, turn one..) you could say something similar about.

Surely 'self-awareness' is intended to be about reasoning that the output shaft turned because [...], that the turn was made towards sunlight because [...]. I think this is what you're getting at with the human being able to say 'I', but I don't think you can gloss over that in that case, because it's the whole point isn't it?

View on HN

Yes, I would say every system has self-awareness.

You say "reasoning" is needed. Ok, but how is that defined? Say you "ask" the cog why it turned by rattling it. Then it will rattle the other cog and, therefore, point you towards it. And you might say "Oh, I understand. You turned because the other cog pushed you". You might say that is just a mechanical mechanism. But if you look at human behavior close enough, it's just a mechanical mechanism too.

I think "self-awareness" as we are discussing it here does not just mean "causal relationship between stimulus and response". It specifically refers to a singular consciousness engaging in thought that translates into intentionality -- this is something that we only directly experience within our own minds, and it doesn't make sense to speculatively apply it to things that are observably very different from ourselves.

But we have the language to know we're capable of and do that introspection. Isn't it fair to say of the cogs that, lacking the ability to talk about 'I' or whatever, some other way to measure it, we don't know if they possess that self-awareness or not?

What exactly does it mean that we "have the language to know"? And how do you prove it? How does the cog's reply in my last comment not match your definition and proof?

In my experience, when you try to define and prove it in a way that is not fuzzy, you come up with a definition that also matches the cog.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com