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Comment by exabrial | Hacker News Reader

The original purpose and intent of unions was to prevent workers from becoming literal wholesale slaughter in the interest of profits: machines that could remove limbs, train couplers that required a user to stick their fingers in it as they were coming together, mining conditions where collapse was not prevented, etc.

I certainly hope Apple retail employees are facing no conditions that threaten their health or safety, and my suspicion is they are not.

The "pool" of humans overall's wealth, health, safety, and happiness increases in general when people strive for more through education and training. I don't see retail jobs as a permanent resting place for anyone. They are useful learning tools however for learning how to interact with coworkers, customers, and develop other skills. The usage of Union law to abate this is bad for society as a whole.

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> I don't see retail jobs as a permanent resting place for anyone.

So that means what? They get to be treated poorly in the meantime? Apple store employees are probably better off than Walmart employees, but unionizing helps (to some degree) to ensure it stays that way.

I think we forget that the (rather limited in the US) employee rights that we do have, even things as basic as not being expected to work 10-12 hour shifts 6-7 days a week were only won because of hard fought action by work unions (since individual workers have zero leverage).

Corporations are built on the premise of generating returns for shareholders. That is their number one priority, and whatever they can do to cut costs, including reducing headcount, wringing the most out of employees, treating them poorly, etc., they _will_ do (with few notable exceptions) so long as it doesn't damage their brand image and profits.

just because you don’t “see” retail jobs as a permanent resting place for anyone doesn’t mean that’s not what has happened and continues to happen across this country. people quite simply do not have the ability geographically, per skill level, or at a certain level of risk, to do what you propose and get a higher paying more skilled job.

EVERY job should be livable and with proper benefits like universal healthcare and paid leave. if the company cannot afford it, it should not exist. people are real, companies are not.

Some background:

https://www.construction-physics.com/p/how-much-safer-has-co...

> The most significant early step was the passage of workers compensation laws, which compensated workers in the event of an injury, increasing the costs to employers if workers were injured (Aldrich 1997). Prior to workers comp laws, a worker or his family would have to sue his employer for damages and prove negligence in the event of an injury or death. Wisconsin passed the first state workers comp law in 1911, and by 1921 most states had workers compensation programs.

…

> OSHA in particular dramatically changed the landscape of workplace safety, and is sometimes viewed as “the culmination of 60 or more years of effort towards a safe and hazard-free workplace.”

The "collapse" is more metaphorical, but real. Job security is non-existant, and wages aren't even keeping up with rent in some areas. People don't unionize and they are literally left out on the streets, for no fault of their own.

It's not manslaughter, but it certainly is still abuse. Collective bargaining seems to be an inevitably in such a situation.

> The usage of Union law to abate this is bad for society as a whole.

Can you elaborate on how unions abate the lessons you mentioned previously?

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