Hacker News Reader

This is very well put, and I agree with it unreservedly. But I do think that it's worth bearing in mind that "trans rights" is, for better or worse, an evolving concept in the culture at the moment. I grew up in the 70s and 80s, when people even in my "west coast liberal" milieu wouldn't bat an eye if someone called someone else a "fag." That's practically inconceivable now, as would be playing "smear the queer" as we did just about daily on the playground. It seems to me that we're now in the middle of a similar process with trans rights, and I do think there are issues -- in particular those regarding the rights of minors and their parents -- that many people are trying in good faith to work through, and about which there are bound to be disagreements. I don't mean to make excuses for the politicians you mention, most of whom I think are using this issue opportunistically and not in good faith. I just think "the rights of trans people" is not something that has a well defined meaning at this point.

>I disagree. How am I supposed to trust and feel safe around someone who knowingly voted for a politician who loudly campaigned on removing my rights and demonizing my very existence?

Because almost all that "demonizing", et al. is just political marketing that will mean nothing if they get into office.

I vote Republican because, as a Japanese-American, I sincerely can't stand the constant identity politics the Left/Democrats want to play on me. No, I'm not a "BIPOC", I'm an American. I'm a minority and an Asian as far as objective facts go, but I'm an American. At least the Right/Republicans seem more content to just call me an American and leave me alone.

But at the end of the day, I have no issues mingling with Leftists/Democrats if they have the decency to leave their politics at the front doors of their houses just like I do my Right/Republican politics.

Also, it's such a fucking stupid thing to not be friendly with each other just because of political differences.

> At least the Right/Republicans seem more content to just call me an American and leave me alone.

I am honestly happy that you get that treatment.

A lot of other minorities don't. The left didn't just decide to play identity politics out of nowhere. They did it because this country has a long history of racism - people alive today experienced life before the Civil Rights act. And the racists who had to be told by law to cut it out didn't just stop being racist because a law was passed, just like how laws against murder don't stop murder from occurring. The racists just found other ways to be racist, and many of the underlying issues have persisted. People on the left are still fighting that fight. And their identity does matter, because it's the very thing that is being used against them.

I imagine if you were an immigrant from Mexico, accused of stealing jobs, running drugs, or being a leech on the system - or any other of the (and I quote Trump here) "shithole countries" that the right hates - you might feel differently. You are lucky that, right now, Japan is not on that list.

> Also, it's such a fucking stupid thing to not be friendly with each other just because of political differences.

Again, it's not just "political differences". They demonize minorities to the point of violence, and two of my friends have been assaulted because of it. It's not theoretical tax policy, it's dehumanization, in rhetoric and in actual laws they hope to pass. Not wanting to be around people who want to engage in violence against my friends is not unreasonable. This isn't theoretical, and my friends have scars to prove it.

> political marketing that will mean nothing if they get into office

Just not true. As the person you replied to pointed out there are hundreds of bills restricting rights for Trans people, all from the right.

In my experience, the average republican is almost allergic to accountability. Yes, these things are happening. Yes, these policies DO represent you. And yes if you vote right you contributed to it.

If that bothers you, or others, it might be time to analyze your affiliations. But you should not simply lie or live in a delusion that nothing happens. No no... things happen. The culture war politics the right cherishes do come to fruition.

Bingo.

I'm afraid, internet stranger, that you are part of the problem here. The original topic for this thread was about "community" and the mental health crisis. Community brings diverse people into contact with each other, which fosters communication and thus has the potential to heal division and increase empathy.

Do you not realize that a lot of people think that abortion is literally murder? That voting for the pro-choice candidate will kill more babies each year than there are trans people? Regardless of how correct you think they are, they also think this is a matter of rights and safety, of life and death. It may be hard to understand, but they believe this as strongly and fervently as you believe what you do.

Now you tell me, without some mechanism to bring people of such disparate views together, how does this resolve? An acrimonious dissolution into a red nation and a blue nation? A civil war in which we both try to snuff out opposing views with violence? (Wouldn't that be ironic?)

At best, you want your side to win, in perpetuity, until the current generation of bad-ists has died off and your views prevail. But as we see, that doesn't happen. The "bad" views continue to be transmitted from generation to generation, fomented by political opportunists, and then we are at constant risk of "their side" prevailing in perpetuity. You think 2028 or 2032 will be any better?

The only way people change their minds is by coming into contact with other people with different viewpoints over a long period of time. But that involves actual relationships, not beating someone into submission with well-reasoned arguments. (Think about how well that works on you!) And you can't have any kind of relationship if you dismiss a citizen out-of-hand because of how they voted.

So you want to make a real difference? Stop being so loud about who you can't be friends with. Don't ask your co-workers about their politics; it's a waste of energy. Talk with your relatives about their actual problems, and steer the conversation away from political rhetoric. Pretend like you want to be a part of humanity instead of apart from it.

I would certainly be a better person if I was the sort of saint that can talk to people who hate my guts that badly, but not all of us are saints.

It's currently illegal for me to use a public bathroom in Florida. Or rather, technically I am legally required to use the women's bathroom, but since I have a significant beard it's quite likely the police would get called on me for attempting to do so.

The next best solution would be protest. What I should really be doing is flying to Florida, using the women's bathroom as legally required, and making sure that as many journalists and lawyers as possible know about the arrest. I haven't quite worked up the courage yet, though. Plenty of trans people can and do flee the states that have successfully deprived them of bathroom access and healthcare because they don't have the energy to stand and fight. The descent to attempted murder has already happened, and it's not the trans people starting it.

It's only a matter of time before so-called "pro-life" policies start killing people too. Hospitals in Idaho are flying women to other states because they're not legally allowed to end ectopic pregnancies - which are never viable and always result in the death of the mother if not terminated - until the woman is too close to death. (https://www.npr.org/2024/04/25/1246990306/more-emergency-fli...)

> continue to be transmitted from generation to generation

Yes, and no. Because the baseline moves. Progressives are ahead of the baseline, and conservatives behind it.

Conservatives of my day were anti-marriage equality. The ones before them were anti-gay in general. Before them, they were anti-integration. Before them anti-women's rights. Before them anti-suffrage. Before them anti-abolition.

The conservative stance gets pushed more and more forever with each passing generation. The overall idea stays - "maintain the status quo and conserve the days of old". But the days of old have changed.

In 100 years, conservatives of that day will be wildly different than the ones right now.

I generally agree with your sentiment, and I do think open dialog is necessary to bridge the divide. It is way more easily said than done though, especially as political violence becomes more frequent.

But I will say - it's pretty terrible that the people being attacked and vilified in this situation are also expected to "be the better person" and bridge the divide. Why is the onus on the oppressed to make peace with their oppressor? Bystanders and allies should call out the bullies for starting the fight rather than blaming the victim for not advocating for themselves politely enough.

Sure, such misfortunes are a part of life and no progress is made without adversity. It is a pattern, though, that bystanders and allies should recognize and help reduce as much as possible.

> Pretend like you want to be a part of humanity instead of apart from it.

It's not me or my trans friends who want to live apart from humanity, trust me. We just want to live here, too - that's what the fight is about. It's the conservatives who are trying to push us out and remove us from society. The original sin of the fracture is theirs, not ours. If we live in a bubble, it's because they forced us into one, not because it's where we want to be.