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Comment by UltraSane | Hacker News Reader

The link you provide was AFTER Russia invaded Ukraine. You can't use the actions of a country to defend against and invasion to JUSTIFY the invasion. Well, Russia does, but it doesn't actually make sense to do so.

Ukrainians understand better than anyone just how much you DO NOT want to be under the thumb of Putin. I don't blame them for fighting back.

And this isn't, or at least did not start out as a "Russia-US proxy war". Ukraine is a sovereign country that sensibly wanted to forge strong ties to Europe and the West. For selfish and egotistical reasons Putin hated that idea and his puppet was going to ignore this desire so Ukrainians kicked him out.

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You can't justify the war with actions taken before the war either, the technical term for that is "unjustifiable".

But what the Ukrainian politicians then did wasn't sensible. They've been broken. They have some of the poorest political leadership we've seen out of any country so far in the 21st century. They've managed to transition their country from comfortable and improving to a smouldering wreck. At every turn they've managed to find an option that leaves them unambiguously worse off than they were before. It is a case study in diplomatic failure and what not to do when threatened by a larger, more militarily competent neighbour.

" They've managed to transition their country from comfortable and improving to a smouldering wreck."

No that was Russia. What you are doing is blaming a women for being punched in the face because she fought back against a rapist.

Ukraine is a country with army, navy and airforce, therefore not a woman. They are not as big as US or Russia.

Ukranian politicians were extremely corrupted[1][2] and they would rather align with money than maintain a stable relation with both countries.

Now they are fighting a proxy war on life support while their Economy runs to ground.

[1] https://kyivindependent.com/top-10-political-scandals-of-202...

[2] https://www.npr.org/2024/01/28/1227447442/ukraine-says-corru...

An invasion of your own country is not be definition a "proxy war". It is a matter of life and death.

You sound exactly like Putin. How strange.

Putin's moronic invasion of Ukraine has done a huge amount of damage to Russia's economy. Russia's per capita GDP could be double what it is if Putin wasn't such a complete moron.

At this point, it is a proxy war. Ukraine is running on US/EU loans and weapons. Even their targets decided by Washington.

Corruption cases among top ranks of Ukr government isn't helping either.

Hezbollah attacking Israel is acting as a proxy for Iran because they have no other reason to attack Israel (just ask Hassan Nasrallah). Ukraine fighting Russia is not because they don't want Russia in their country.

You make some reasonable points but they are mixed in with extremely typical Russia talking points like "Corruption cases among top ranks of Ukr government isn't helping either." You want corruption? Putin's wealth is impossible to estimate because he can take money directly from the Russian treasure and also force many oligarchs to let him user their yachts and homes.

Israel is taking over Palestine and nearby countries with support from US and EU. They are using hostages as an excuse[1]. So let's not go there.

Ukraine proposed to join NATO and EU about a year before war. Both of which could bring significant money to Ukr.

> extremely typical Russia talking points like... You want corruption? Putin's wealth...

Once again, Ukraine is in debt of EU/US, NOT Russia or Putin. Corruption in Ukraine matters cause it's international debt.

Top level Ukr officials are making billions, purchasing properties in EU and going on vacation while thier soldiers are running out of supplies. And who/how do you think this debt would be paid back? Who is profiting from this war?

[1]https://www.thejc.com/news/israel/ben-gvir-outrage-blocked-h...

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