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Comment by Aurornis | Hacker News Reader

> Even if apartment complexes start adding chargers the renters may have to eat that cost as part of their rent for some period of time.

Homeowners also have to eat the cost of installing a charger and paying for electricity.

I think you’re exaggerating the issue. Many people charge at apartments, rental houses, or work and it’s only becoming more common.

The claim that younger generations will never afford homes has also been extremely exaggerated. Millennial home ownership rates are actually quite high and growing, not far from previous generations. Houses are more expensive, but claiming entire generations won’t afford homes is just doomerism.

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> Millennial home ownership rates are actually quite high and growing, not far from previous generations.

Incorrect. Millennial home ownership rates are 10-15% lower than previous generations. They are growing in absolute terms simply because millennials are reaching middle age and getting more accumulated wealth - but there has been and remains a gap. The gap widens for Gen Z.

https://youngamericans.berkeley.edu/2024/01/breaking-down-th...

It costs about $600 for a home EV charger and should cost around $800-1800 for installation, approximately $200 of material and 4-6 hrs of labor.

A single commercial three-phase EV charger in a multi-tenant building plus installation costs at least an order of magnitude more when you include the electrical switchgear, charger, larger wiring, permit, conduit, utility costs, et

> It costs about $600 for a home EV charger and should cost around $800-1800 for installation, approximately $200 of material and 4-6 hrs of labor.

Reasonably, I’d need a panel upgrade and an upgrade to the underground feed... for which, the lowest quotes I’ve received have been $10k+. (More than I paid for the entire car that I’ve been driving for the past 12 years.)

I think people get "install a home EV charger" mixed up with "install a fast home EV charger".

If your goal is to full-charge a multi-hundred-mile EV in 8 hours, then, yes, you're looking at a significant installation with a new circuit, maybe a new panel, and maybe a new main feed from your utility. This could cost as much as the car!

If your goal is to charge enough overnight to make up for 2x your average daily commute, then you're talking about a much smaller installation. It could potentially even be done with through an existing 120V, 12A wall outlet. Many plug-in hybrids and EVs come with a dinky wall charger like this, and they are enough 99% of the time. External DC fast charging can make up for the rest.

Everyone's needs are different, but I think too many people rush in and go too far with electrical upgrades.

Yeah, like you say, everyone's needs are difference, but from my vantage point, an EV isn't really workable for my household without a home Level 2 charger, which isn't really workable without a panel/feed upgrade for my house.

My comment should’ve been prefaced with “Assuming you have an existing 200A service,”

A new service drop and panel shouldn’t be $10k, but lots of residential electricians are greedy. 4/0 4/0 2/0 aluminum triplex cable isn’t that expensive but if they included directional boring instead of trenching, $10k makes more sense. A fully loaded resi panel with the correct AFCI and GFCI breakers is around $2500 or so. If you happen to live in MN or WI, I can give you a better quote.

Yeah, it's the hydrovac that adds most of the cost. Not my blog, but I'm with the same utility provider in the same area: http://www.titam.ca/2021/05/cost-to-upgrade-underground-elec...

Oh yeah any time you roll a hydrovac truck, things get REAL expensive very quickly.

You also don’t need to own a home to charge a car where you live.

I met an uber driver who drove a Tesla Model 3 and they charged at an apartment tower garage.

The best part for them was the landlord offered it for free, no electricity charge.

I also know someone who just ran an extension cord out to their parking spot in their apartment.

It really isn’t that hard to imagine a situation where street parking has overnight charging infrastructure. Streets where people live already have electricity running to all of them.

> It really isn’t that hard to imagine a situation where street parking has overnight charging infrastructure. Streets where people live already have electricity running to all of them.

I've read that while this is true, the power capacity of this existing infrastructure is far, far from what would be required. Even the cable sizes are frequently inappropriate.

Gasoline cars were sold before gas station networks existed. We didn’t always have a gas station around every corner.

The same argument about capacity could be made for other modern appliances like air conditioning and electric dryers.

Most EV buyers barely need level 2 charging for their daily average driving distance.

Of course if we are going to get deep in the weeds I’d say that most places where the majority of peope live including suburbs can be made far more conducive to cycling and transit without that much of an investment and more of a mindset change to how we approach city development.

> The same argument about capacity could be made for other modern appliances like air conditioning and electric dryers.

Oh sure. My point wasn't that "it cannot be done" - it clearly can. My point was that this is not as "ready to go" as some people suggest sometimes.

receipts, please

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