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Comment by 2shortplanks | Hacker News Reader

One thing this article doesn’t mention is how this all falls apart when you spend time in more than one country.

My UK bank (Barclays) won’t let me install their app on my US iPhone (i.e. my phone that uses a US based iCloud account). Tesco won’t let me use their loyalty app. I can’t install an app that’ll let me order Starbucks or McDonalds in the UK (I only have access to the US versions of these apps). I can’t watch Star Trek because the US paramount plus app detects I’m in the UK and I can’t install the UK version.

I could switch to a UK iCloud account but then when I’m in the states everything falls apart the other way round.

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I recently travelled to Europe and found that a number of transportation apps disallowed me installing them. Toll road apps, public transit, etc…

It was a major pain, and to make it worse I got fined €130 by Ausfinag for not paying tolls, but I couldn’t install their app and I bought the wrong sticker at the gas station because as it turns out there are a bunch of special areas with additional tolls above the base toll. I tried my best to comply but the system is totally user hostile.

Also as a tourist, I’m glad that DB app just works for me to register and buy tickets so easily with out hassle (though their trains scheduling is the problem)

Truth be told, the tolls in Austria are a total mess.

There is a country wide sticker/digital vignette you can get for different periods of time and a handful of tunnels that cost extra money that you can pay in cash or by card at the time you drive through one of those. How is that a mess?

Of course a system like Germany where you don't have any tolls is even easier but compared to France or Italy where you constantly have to pull over for toll stops and end up paying a multiple more for most trips I think this is pretty great

You can’t jump the toll gates in Italy, so even if I am a completely clueless tourist it is easy to comply with the laws.

What gets me is that I bought the Vignette but didn’t know there was an additional toll and a 130€ fine seems pretty large for the infraction severity. I would be more OK if the police pulled me over and gave me the ticket, but the cameras just scanned my license plate and sent me an automated fine. If the system was trying to enforce compliance instead of punishing me they could have just sent me a bill for the toll I didn’t pay (which was a few €).

Ha seems like the app is the scapegoat for this one

Interestingly EU consumer protection cooperation is currently claiming this is illegal within the EU/between EU markets: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/es/ip_24_...

I hope they manage to change things.

I’ve had the same issue between Spain and France, so it might be illegal but it’s still the case.

UK is not part of EU.

Even more so now

My ugly solution to this problem is to have a free Oracle Cloud VM in the other country that I use to run a VPN (Oracle provides instructions [1]). I then connect to this using OpenVPN on my phone, which allows me have a Google account that thinks I am in the other country and so allows me to install apps that are restricted to that country. I don't have the VPN connected all the time - only when I want to access the App Store using the Google account that I have for the other country.

[1]: https://blogs.oracle.com/developers/post/launching-your-own-...

To be a little pedantic, your solution is a solution to your problem, but only a fraction of the problem you're responding to. Your VPN won't help access the UK apps that require a UK phone localization if those same services aren't also available in the region of your VPN exit node. And since he's talking about UK-specific apps and services, VPNing his US phone back to the US isn't any help.

Netflix? Sure UK NHS? Not so much.

This is essentially what's known as 'digital migration'[1] in mainland China. Many streaming services aren't available in China; foreign companies that do operate here often have their features reduced. So, apart from buying foreign SIM cards and using multiple Apple accounts, we typically subscribe to something called 'airports,' which provide standardized, open-source VPN protocols with servers (called 'nodes') in various regions. Besides bypassing internet censorship, these nodes often use residential broadband and specify which streaming and LLM services they can unlock.

[1]: https://blog.shuziyimin.org/

This is probably illegal in China (?)

I recently complained to my local cities transportation office that their mobile app for bus tickets was only available for German Google users. The actually changed it now.

When I was young in Europe the trend was that the place where you live will dictate and limit less and less of your life. Technology, traveling, motivation of people will allow roaming, postcode independent existence.

Well, the trend froze up very fast and is in full reverse nowadays, I am in my early 50s and I believe me and my children's life will such more and more, be even more difiicult by the reverse of intents towards a more unified humanity. The law and all working with law will remain a big fucking barrier even if the representatives the people choose to form their life (politicians) would magicly become nice and selfless and efficient, they fight hard to do business the same shitty way as 100s of years ago, all differenty in all puny geographic regions, in as much diverse as possible, as incompetible with each other as possible. And several happily collaborate as it is a fix income to do unoptimal and fragmented way, happily waste our resources providing services in this muddy water.

Not just freedom of living and work, but things even more basic: Have you tried crossing the border with Germany or Austria by train? You'll most likely get a mini deportation squad on board, despite all agreeing to Schengen Convention.

> I could switch to a UK iCloud account but then when I’m in the states everything falls apart the other way round.

If it’s only two countries, you can sign in and out of the App Store only with two regions. This is how I maintained a Japan and US region account on the same device. The thing that sucks is changing between accounts for updates, but it does work to some degree.

This is all rather easy on Android. You can have multiple Google (Play) accounts set to different countries.

But most app developers don't even enforce it. I had UK bank apps installed through my "German" Google account.

That might also be because it's not legal to geoblock consumers within the "single european market" EU strategy thing. The bank might have not blocked German residents from using their UK bank account before and now they noticed there's no reason to bother people with geoblocking and so it still works after the UK broke out of the EU

You can also sideload or use something like Aurora Store to access Play Store content without restrictions. Yet another reason iOS is a nonstarter for me.

I don't see why I should even have to set up multiple accounts. For the vast majority of these apps, I see no reason they need to be geo-locked anyway.

Yep, as someone who also travels between countries regularly, it's complete nonsense. "This app isn't available in your region" - what do you mean, I am literally in your region.

The sad part is sometimes just switching languages/locales on your phone (i.e. changing the language from US English to British English) fixes this as it's all the code checks.

Is this the same on Android side ? I know that you can more easily sideload app there so it could be an issue only on iphone walled garden.

You can add multiple Google accounts - one for each country, and switch between them on the Play Store. That's how I'm able to access apps from my home country and resident country.

As for using the apps themselves, you might run into issues depending on what restrictions they have - IP address, SMS verification, etc.

> As for using the apps themselves, you might run into issues depending on what restrictions they have - IP address, SMS verification, etc.

sure but that is the case on iphone too, at least you are not blocked by the phone manufacturer to download the app you need.

I have two Google accounts, one in the us, one in Germany. So far that has divided to get around this for the apps I encountered it. But I'm not a heavy phone user...

Android app can still geolocate the user so yeah, still the same issue.

I can't buy overnight bunk tickets on Ukrainian trains anymore because I need to authenticate, and the only authentication methods require either Ukrainian citizenship or residency cards.

I can't install the app for my new Amex card because my Google account was opened in Canada and I live in Germany now.

And it keeps getting worse every year. I'm worried that eventually my American and Canadian banking apps will stop working...

The internet was supposed to make this shit simpler.

> I can't buy overnight bunk tickets on Ukrainian trains anymore because I need to authenticate, and the only authentication methods require either Ukrainian citizenship or residency cards.

In fairness, that specific case is probably intentional. They have quite limited train capacity as all passenger air travel was forced to switch to trains/busses, and I suspect they're trying to save it for locals. It is annoying though; I've been to Ukraine quite a few times recently and have used that app myself.

It's actually to stop buying and selling tickets on the secondary market, which is fair. It's just the tech mismatch causing unintended consequences. Even the guys at Privatbank were shaking their heads at the absurdity (and they're the ones who run one of the authentication mechanisms. Even having a bank account there in your name is not enough).

I had to keep two phones for this purpose[0] and pay two cellphone bills, one in the USA and one in the UK. It helped when traveling in Europe though because then you are only paying UK data rates, not USA-on-vacation rates.

It is still an insane situation, though.

[0] LloydsTSB had the same restriction on app store

You can purchase data-only sims that last a couple of years in the UK with generous monthly data allowances for a one time upfront fee. May save you overpaying for two separate bills.

If you create multiple Apple accounts in different regions, you can switch to that regions app store in the App Store app (this doesn't have to do with your iPhone iCloud account) by logging in to the relevant account.

I have a US and an Aus Apple Account, and I switch the account on App Store to get apps that are region locked.

Yes, I've long given up trying to reconcile this mess and bought three separate cell phones with three separate sim cards to for the three countries where I spend non-trivial amount of time.

I have an account at a credit union that only offers SMS 2FA, and requires it for every login. I can't connect to that phone number when I'm abroad, so I can't access my account.

Have you considered getting a voip number? Google Voice, Twilio, etc.

As an aside, I think it's insane that banking apps almost always have 2FA via SMS, which is known to be less secure than a TOTP authenticator, whereas my Nintendo account has TOTP 2FA, and passkey support. Heaven forbid I want more security options for my banking than for my videogames.

AFAIK this is only a problem on iPhone, not Android?

Note: I have an iPhone. It sucks. Same issue. I have bank accounts in other countries. The app needs an update. To install the update I have to switch countries on my account which instantly voids any and all subscriptions through Apple. It's insane.

It's even more crazy that every single Apple employee I know has this issue but for whatever reason it's not fixed.

The UK National Health Service app is restricted to the UK only: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.nhs.online... — that's not too crazy, as it's also only useful for people resident in the UK.

The McDonald's UK app is also restricted to the UK: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.mcdonalds.... which is daft, why wouldn't they want tourists and visitors?

Searching "<city> transport app" with large cities, the first restricted example I found is for Sheffield, which is limited to the UK: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.yorcard.ts... . (It's the official app, the contact email ends .gov.uk.)

An example in the article, of paying for on-street parking, is also blocked for tourists: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.paybyphone...

I'm not going to bother registering an additional Google account when I visit Sheffield then want to take the tram to McDonald's.

(By "restricted" I mean Google Play reports "This app is not available for your device" which is a current phone registered in Denmark.)

yes but you have a solution. it sucks (make a 2nd account) but it works. iphone has no solution.

I feel your pain. I’ve been dealing with this since 2011. The thing that makes it even worse is subscriptions. You can’t switch app stores while you have subscriptions.

If you're on Android, apkmirror.com or another similar site is a good and safe solution.

On the safety point, how would I ensure that e.g. the APK for my banking app is authentic and unmodified?

Good point. How do you ensure that the APK for your banking app is authentic on the Play Store?

Maybe we should ask all banks to publish their apps via F-Droid build service so the build hashes on both the Play Store and its mirrors can be checked for third-party modification.

My bank publishes a Play Store link to their app on their website. If I assume that Google would not maliciously hijack their app ID, I can assume that the app is authentic.

Expecting my bank to listen to suggestions about publishing hashes for F-Droid users is not realistic, so assuming that they would never do this, how would I verify the app outside of the Play Store?

https://www.apkmirror.com/faq/#Security_What_measures_do_you...

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