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Which is: people complaining about Rust zealots are much more than actual Rust zealots. Thinking of it, I haven't seen a proper Rust zealot on HN for at least a year at this point.
So I don't know, maybe do less cheap digs. Tearing down straw men is pretty boring to watch.
It is somewhat similar, actually, when someone states a negative opinion on Rust community and marketing around it. It is usually followed by those that say "you met wrong people".
Of course, you won't find any examples in this thread xd.
Literally that's what you're saying: they have a different opinion therefore they're zealots!
Unless people posting an opinion is itself zealotry... but in that case why are you complaining about the replies and not the comments they reply to?
I think exegesis is a skill you need to hone further.
All you do is defend very anecdotal evidence. Surely you can see this is not logically compelling.
Appreciate the perspective however. It's helpful.
Thanks for the clarification. Appreciate it. <3
Every interaction I've had with a rust programmer has led me to believe they are a toxic community of cultists. It's unlike any programming community I've seen.
Since the brain rates negative experiences more highly, it may have you believe such a generalisation, no?
Toxic people are everywhere on the net. That's not an interesting insight. If you point us at some lunatic on Twitter who loses their marbles over everything, that's not interesting either.
Do you get trolled on actual technical forums though?
> It's unlike any programming community I've seen.
Oh, you clearly haven't hung out with the Haskellers in their prime.
So I called the poster out to show proof. So far there's none, except one Twitter post (because we all know that's the best technical discussion forum on the planet, clearly) which does not surprise me at all.
So they are the ones who get triggered by something that does not exist.
That is what is toxic.
If you go around claiming fantasies and people call you out then that falls more under curiosity and discussion. Not toxicity.
- Members of the group respond non-kindly
- "Help! I am being repressed!"
I mean, maybe you should try more balanced take next time. Just a thought.
If you're referring to my above post, I'm pointing out that you're having a very emotional reaction to what I'm saying. That's typically what I see from rust developers.
All I do in each reply is point out how you generalize and get surprised that you are being called out.
No emotional reactions. Show me where they are?
I'm happy to share then. Here's my most recent encounter with a rustacean: https://x.com/_chjj/status/1829989494298460636
I asked if he/she/they had ever used the unsafe keyword. That was the response I got. It's usually some vile insult involving furry or transgender genitalia.
It’s trivial to find examples of people in any community who are a bit off the rails, but you shouldn’t let that define your perception of the community, especially given the fact that you’re currently in a context where your thesis doesn’t have much to support it.
I wonder whether you believe these people would ever be endorsed by the faces of the Rust language or whether the majority of people in the community would behave so. In my experience (not to minimise yours), the Rust community and FOSS in general, are some of the most open and welcoming communities online, albeit with clear exceptions
For the record, I only picked Rust 5-ish years ago out of a 23 years of career. I know plenty of other languages. I was a skeptic at the start as well. Never generalized a pretty big group like you do though.
You should be ashamed.
Not sure what to make of your other comments.
What is actually funny in our exchanges is that I don't even actively work with Rust anymore. I work with multiple languages, it included. I've met very smart, humble and fairly hardcore [Rust] devs from whom I learned a lot and got severely humbled as a result (as I was under the illusion that there's not much more I could learn in programming back then).
My other comments are fairly trivial English. Surely you can very easily make something out of them.
It sounds like you had a good experience with the rust community. I'm glad it worked for you. But from what I've seen, it's not for me.
By claiming they are hard-working, you are generalizing. It is usually only a couple or few that are actually hard-working people, but then again, I am generalizing because I do not know, I do not wish to actually claim to know.
Judging by your comments, e.g. "you should be ashamed" (for simply expressing his dislike of YOUR community), you sound exactly like a zealot.
Why do you feel the need to claim moral superiority and tell someone to be ashamed just for simply expressing their dislike of your community? And while we are at it, he probably dislikes the community because of people like you. We have gone full circle.
I am not even going to bother commenting on a lot of things you have said, but:
> My other comments are fairly trivial English. Surely you can very easily make something out of them.
Sounds condescending as well, but this is a minor nitpick. :)
Fair, I appreciate the call-out and it's a valid one.
> Judging by your comments, e.g. "you should be ashamed" (for simply expressing his dislike of YOUR community), you sound exactly like a zealot.
It's not that. I said he should be ashamed because he doubled down on generalizing. Even said he usually does that a lot. To me if you work in tech you should be more analytical and more unforgiving towards your own assessments. We all thought the bug is in X but it turned it was in Y, right? That's what I called out.
As you yourself pointed out, we don't truly know much people in the community are generally nice and hard-working, which I agree is an accurate call for a balanced take.
My problem is the outright negative generalization. I was in the mood and didn't leave him alone about it. He eventually seems to have admitted that he only demonstrated his own anecdotal evidence. I disengaged at that point because that's a valid way to exit a discussion... though I still would worry what kind of people he communicated with if he had such an overwhelming negative experience, and only with its most lunatic members to boot.
You are free to think of me as a zealot but I'd think that's an emotional and unfair reaction and would ask you to revise it. My comments were not a stubborn push-back, but a call to being objective.
> Why do you feel the need to claim moral superiority and tell someone to be ashamed just for simply expressing their dislike of your community? And while we are at it, he probably dislikes the community because of people like you. We have gone full circle.
I claimed analytical superiority, not a moral one. I've met Rust zealots. I've met Golang and (oh boy are they MANY) C/C++ zealots. Even my favorite Elixir has some weird people that think everything should be written with it.
The difference between me and the poster you seem to defend a bit emotionally is that I don't claim my outlier negative experiences are the norm. He did that. I did not.
As for the full circle thing: I ain't giving the other cheek. I don't owe grace to people who are rudely generalizing. I am aware many people would assess me much better if I just gave the other cheek. I know. But I choose not to abide by those expectations. Sadly this leads to people like yourself branding me like a zealot. Regrettable. But it's ultimately your loss for missing out on interesting and informed and unbiased discussions with me.
Feel free to check my comment history. I am not always super level-headed but I always look for the truth.
> Sounds condescending as well, but this is a minor nitpick. :)
Couldn't resist, admittedly. See above. ;)
And it's not "my" community. I don't belong to a single one so I don't emotionally defend any of them.
I mean, by that logic, people of my nationality would have to be fenced off and never allowed in other countries... because we do indeed have thousands of nasty scammers out there in the world.
99.99999% of us are chill, work, pay taxes, have fun etc.
So generalizations like the one that moved me to start pursuing the guy and not leave him alone until he ultimately said "it's just my anecdotal experience" (and stopped claiming it's universally true), because you know, we can pick ANY group, find several lunatics and claim the group is bad in this or that way.
As said to another guy a few minutes ago -- I can get such "opinions" in every bar. I come to HN for better discussions than this.