Comment by pinaceae | Hacker News Reader

Comment by pinaceae | Hacker News Reader

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don't you get tired of this blah?

HN is about founders and the IT industry. mobile technology is the biggest growth area right now. Apple and Google are dominating, with different concepts software and hardware wise. Samsung is in there as a hybrid with many different approaches, incl. WP8 which is Nokia's and Microsoft's stake. RIM is practically dead in the water.

Instead of going full nerd retard, shouldn't you be keen on understanding what is going on? Why Apple is breaking records? Why, as Gruber notes in his review, there is a target group very attracted to Samsung (or just bigger form factors)?

Imagine you're in the automotive industry, producing accessories for various brands. wouldn't you approach customers driving a BMW differently than the ones driving a Lexus? There might be hostility and sneering between those groups, but what does it matter to you?

It feels like the horrible mindset of sports fans, just within nerd circles. My team is better than yours, even though I just sit on the sidelines and have no impact on the actual play. Cause there is nothing else in my life to get excited about.

I think it is a fair summation of the article.

I mean really. What is actually new? Very little is the answer.

Apple have bumped up the specs... everyone does after a year or two. That is really about it. Its a hardware upgrade. Well. A hardware upgrade with a new adapter... because that is exactly what the world needed. Fuck standardization. Realistically Apple wanted to milk more money from people. You have no choice but to get an adapter, otherwise all your docks and peripherals will no longer connect to your iPhone. YES! GET THE IPHONE5!

> The question everyone who hasn’t yet pre-ordered wants answered: Should you upgrade? My answer is simple. If you can afford it, yes.

Your answer is wrong. If your phone function's fine, you have no complaints with its responsiveness etc. No you do not need to upgrade. The iPhone5 brings nothing which is compellingly new to the table. It is a minor update. A bit like a new XBOX. Does exactly the same stuff as your current xbox, looks slightly better, loads games slightly faster.

If your iPhone breaks, hell, check out the iPhone5. If you don't have an iPhone and can justify the cost look into it. Otherwise buy a cheap android handset which - while rougher around the edges - has all the same phone functionality (You are buying a phone) for a fraction of the cost.

What's new? Well, the

- processor

- baseband

- antennas

- camera

- display

- case

- OS

- and, yes, the Lightning adaptor which you baselessly claim Apple instituted just to milk money from people

A great deal of iPhone 5 is entirely new. Yes, it is a hardware upgrade, but you're simply being disingenuous if you claim very little is new.

I'd also like to point out that "free" is a very affordable price for an iPhone 4, for those who are looking for a cheap handset.

see, cheap and functions as well appeals to a certain demographic. by that mindset you would never by a BMW (to stay out of mobile) - which is perfectly fine, you can argue that this brand of car does not add anything useful to the table. a prius gets you from A to B as well, as a commuter you never use all that horsepower anyway.

this is one side of the argument, represents a demographic and target group. no need to invest in luxury for your products, focus on utilitarian approach. can be rough around the edges, but needs to get the job done.

but what about BMW buyers? why is BMW selling like hotcakes? is it just about the marketing? all an illusion? just like with a mobile device, you need to try it to find out. Gruber calls it "niceness", which is a pretty good term. Attention to detail, materials, the composition of it all. No rough edges. Apple is showing of the micron-precision manufacturing in their latest iPhone video. Why does a phone need that? BMW does the same, visit BMW world in Munich to get a grasp of it.

There is a target group that responds to level of detail. Even superfluous one, think of classic traits attributed to Japanese handiwork or cooking. Does sushi need to look that good? Does a wooden temple need such intricate structures?

No surprise that Jobs' was infatuated with Japan and Sony.

Do specs and factsheets appeal to everyone? Obviously not. BMW exist. Apple as well. Both can be described as overpriced, overhyped items of self-indulgence that are being surpassed by a lot of competing products. But that 'surpassed' is subjective. Once you add taste and design into the mix, it becomes a very different picture.

Now think of your target group. Is your own taste a good indicator or does it cloud what your users would actually like?

The problem with your BMW comparison is this. When buying a car, you want something that is going to last (or at least hold some value if you sell it off sooner). If you are spending $50K on something you want it to be solid, dependable. You want it to still be as solid and dependable in 6 or 8 years. The quality you get from the BMW is going to remain for the life of the car. You probably don't get that out of a $17k Hyundai Elantra. If you want it to last a long time... you need the quality build. But with a phone, meh. It'll be replaced in a year or two anyway. Sooner if you drop it in the toilet or leave it at the bar. I don't think most people (even iPhone people) keep a phone long enough to get the long term benefits of this "micron precision" beyond just that subjective "it feels nice" you might have at first. My phone is plastic. It probably doesn't have micron precision in the manufacturing. But it looks nice. And it feels nice too. It even feels like it will last as long as I need it to last before I'm ready to get a new one.

No, that's not the problem with his BMW comparison. The problem is that you think you know why people buy BMWs. You think that people buy BMWs for the same reasons as you, and that is why you're missing the point.

If you want to understand why other people do things, you have to first stop thinking about why you do things.

That is true as well. We're all talking out of our asses here. I don't buy an iPhone because I don't like Apple's business... not because it is a crap product. It is probably a fine device. I think mine is too. I'm happy with it.

> see, cheap and functions as well appeals to a certain demographic. by that mindset you would never by a BMW (to stay out of mobile) - which is perfectly fine, you can argue that this brand of car does not add anything useful to the table. a prius gets you from A to B as well, as a commuter you never use all that horsepower anyway.

Wrong analogy - these two brands have very high resale values. For every non-BMW Prius-class vehicle there are 10+ Ford Focus (gets job done, but loses resale fast).

> Realistically Apple wanted to milk more money from people

No, they wanted to make the phone thinner and lighter. They gained 20% with an adapter that's 80% smaller.

My guess is that the Lightning adapter will be, at minimum, USB 3.0 speeds, if not better. It's also entirely digital, meaning the adapters have to have DACs in them to output analog, hence the price.

I wonder why each iteration of the iPhone has to be science fiction?

Deleted comment

Micro USB can't do everything the new connector can e.g. digital out.

  The iPhone 5 is not all-new, despite the protestations in the launch video.
  It looks like a mid-season 3-series with a new spoiler stuck on it and a stretched wheelbase.
  What people wanted (especially after the 4s), was a new 911.

You must be joking! The 3 series has undergone much more radical changes than a 911! And the iPhone 5 is closer to the design philosophy of the 911, which traces its history back 50 years! Hell, I can even guess how the next generation is going to look.

What is your point ? Every phone upgrade is a hardware upgrade.

Amen bro :)

I like to think of Apple and Google as different "eigenvectors" for building a big, profitable company. Apple represents one extreme -- closed, premium, vertically integrated, resulting in highest profits but lower marketshare. Google is almost the opposite -- open, ad-supported, trying to get its search box and ads onto everything, resulting in highest market share but lower profits.

Being able to pick pieces from each approach for your own company is the real lesson here.

And for me, personally, I could get excited working at either Apple or Google -- just like it's interesting to play chess on either the white or black side. My goal is to understand the game!

I don't think there's any requirement that says "because HN caters to starts ups, one shouldn't go off about gear".

Pinaceae - I am in no way disparaging Apple here. The iPhone and Apple are breaking records.

What I really didn't like was the vapidness and hypocrisy of Gruber's review. Gruber's talking as if this is the second coming - when in reality this is a good evolutionary upgrade.

BTW - I bought a first gen iPod/iPad, have owned 3 Apple notebooks, and have made a dozen or so people buy Apple computers and iPhones. I have no hesitation recommending an Apple product to those it would be best suited for.

i think his summary is spot on. Daring Fireball has always been a terrible blog to read.

The iphone 5 is a fine phone IMO, even thus they failed to advertise it as such, use a crappy new connector and "forgot" about NFC.

The screen looks good, the CPU looks excellent, its finally lighter, it also finally has LTE, and the rest, well, is mostly on par with rest anyways.

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