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Comment by hermanzegerman | Hacker News Reader

I've never seen Zivver used in German Healthcare.

Also Germany uses and is already Rolling out a Matrix-based Messenger and S/MIME-Mail with End-to-End-Encryption for Communication between Healthcare Professionals.

So at least for Germany this is not a problem.

More problematic was our prior health Minister who wanted to make data accessibile to OpenAI et al for "research". That's also why I opted out of the electronic health record

https://www.heise.de/news/Lauterbach-zu-Gesundheitsdaten-Goo...

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I don’t think you can opt out of the electronic health record long term. We should instead elect officials that can deal with the “Neuland” of the digital age and have some technical chops and don’t immediately cave in when there is some money to be made (in no way implying that you don’t already do this)

Right now, you can and should do it.

See https://www.bundesgesundheitsministerium.de/themen/digitalis...

> We should instead elect officials that can deal with the “Neuland” of the digital age and have some technical chops and don’t immediately cave in when there is some money to be made

Yes, but I don't think this will happen during our lifetimes. Especially since the Gematik has shown again and again that they can't be trusted with it

>I've never seen Zivver used in German Healthcare.

How would you even be sure of this just from what you can see from the outside? That doesn't mean your health insurance company isn't using Zivver internally same how they use Office 365 or SAP. It's not like they tell you all the SW they use.

Why would they use it internally?

Internally, you have the Hospital Information System where you can look up all the informations you need.

I can just say I know the inside of one of Germany's biggest Hospitals, since I'm a Doctor. And requesting Patient Data or giving it out to other Parties is unfortunately a Task that Doctors still have to do on their own

And for communication with the outside world it's down to Fax, Phone or Letter.

And that will be replaced with KIM in the future

> Fax, Phone or Letter

That's interesting because in The Netherlands most of my doctor's communications come through email (and zivver), followed by snail mail.

Theoretically they could already send this via S/MIME encrypted Mail (KIM) to the family doctor, but most Hospitals haven't rolled out this service yet.

They just started installing Card Readers for the Doctor Identity Cards, so they can issue electronic prescriptions

For communication with Patients some Hospitals have Web Portals/Apps for getting/sending information.

That's pretty interesting. We have electronic prescriptions too (though it goes straight to the pharmacy however - we don't see it).

As far as I know, I don't think the hospital portal has ever been used for communication like that. An email seems more "obvious" perhaps to the docs, and that's what they use most of the time.

The Hospitals in NL that use Epic as EHR also have Patient Portals. But I don't know how much they get used

https://www.umcutrecht.nl/en/login-patient-portal

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