Comment by jack_tripper | Hacker News Reader

Comment by jack_tripper | Hacker News Reader

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>I'm curious - how do you see Europe surviving if not through further integration?

I don't, with or without further integration. Not everyone or everything is meant to survive. Everything has a shelf life. The Roman empire also collapsed. Rearranging the deckchairs of the titanic doesn't change the outcome.

>What is your preferred model? All of us staying in little insignificant countries, kowtowing to larger powers?

A union is good, but the EU only worked at preventing another world war between members, not at helping us be united against foreign entities, because you can't force unity between different dethatched cultures just because we're neighbours, as proven by Yugoslavia, the USSR, etc.

Every EU member is still driven by self interest and own group preference, which will be the EU's doom. Like Spain doesn't really care as much about the Eastern war as Poland or Romania do because they're far away from the war and don't see why they should pay more taxpayer money for it. Germans care more about something happening in Austria than about what's happening in Bulgaria. And so on.

>I don't, with or without further integration. Not everyone or everything is meant to survive. Everything has a shelf life. The Roman empire also collapsed. Rearranging the deckchairs of the titanic doesn't change the outcome.

Why have strong opinions if you're really just a doomer?

Yugoslavia broke up mainly due to ethnic not cultural differences, it wasn't Croatian Serbs against Bosnian Serbs.

And the entire point of a healthy relationship is to compromise and try to understand the other side, which is the point of the EU.

So Spain contributes to the east as a compromise for getting heavy subsidies themselves.

>Why have strong opinions if you're really just a doomer?

Are you the opinion police?

>the entire point of a healthy relationship is to compromise and try to understand the other side, which is the point of the EU

The problem with compromise is that everyone becomes equally unhappy. And when everyone is unhappy strange results come at elections.

EU member states are so different, that you can't have regulations that benefits an economy like Denmark and also simultaneously one like Romania. Which is how places like Romania now have German energy and grocery prices but Romanian wages and pensions. Not exactly a great compromise for a lot of Romanians.

>So Spain contributes to the east as a compromise for getting heavy subsidies themselves.

It doesn't matter how it is in reality, what matters is how Spanish voters perceive it come election times. Elections are always won on vibes and feels rather than facts and arguments.

>Are you the opinion police?

For asking a question?

>The problem with compromise is that everyone becomes equally unhappy. And when everyone is unhappy strange results come at elections.

And the alternative is exactly what?

Compromise is not a negative or a positive otherwise healthy relationships wouldn't be defined by those who find compromises.

>EU member states are so different, that you can't have regulations that benefits an economy like Denmark and also simultaneously one like Romania. Which is how places like Romania now have German energy and grocery prices but Romanian wages and pensions. Not exactly a great compromise for a lot of Romanians

What specific regulation is causing tremendous benefit to Denmark but is causing harm to Romania?

And if Romania pays a lot for energy spot price then that is on Romania, similar to Germany, on top of this grocery prices are not regulated by the EU.

>It doesn't matter how it is in reality, what matters is how Spanish voters perceive it come election times. Elections are always won on vibes and feels rather than facts and arguments.

Then the fault is at those who do understand facts for not approaching vibes with better vibes, I can agree with you that neo politics has been the biggest catastrophe for Europe.

But the only reason why people follow vibes is because of the lack of social, political and cultural issues being part of what it means to be political and instead politics is portrayed as at best as a numbers game and at worst technocratic (just look at chat control, sounds wonderful when your experts are the police and lobbyists but sounds awful if politicians were invested in social perspectives).

>>Why have strong opinions if you're really just a doomer?

>>Are you the opinion police?

>For asking a question?

Calling someone a doomer then pretending you were just asking a question is bad faith argumentation so I'll have to end the conversation with you.

>What specific regulation is causing tremendous benefit to Denmark but is causing harm to Romania?

That was only a though exercise for an example. But to answer your question with something concrete it would be auto industry regulations for example. If China would destroy Eu's auto industry, Denmark wouldn't care since they don't have one, they'll reap the benefits of cheap Chinese import but it would wreck auto making countries like Slovakia or Romania.

>And if Romania pays a lot for energy spot price then that is on Romania, similar to Germany, on top of this grocery prices are not regulated by the EU.

No, that's on the EU, since the EU forced everyone to tie electricity to gas energy prices in the name of environmentalism which disproportionately affects poorer countries.

> On top of this grocery prices are not regulated by the EU

Doesn't matter that the EU doesn't regulate the food prices, but it's the outcome of the EU free market it led to for poorer nations like Romania and obviously Romanians aren't happy.

A lot of EU market regulations have negativity affected the poorer people of the poorer member States. And they still have a right to vote.

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