This really nerfs the whole dumbphone movement for Europeans, which should be a key market.
I went on holiday with someone a few weeks ago who is toughing it out with a no-Whatsapp dumbphone. He missed the train home because he got locked out of the holiday cottage and couldn't get in touch with anyone.
My experience of not having a Whatsapp account and being in Europe is that I don't miss it.
I'm not in a few group chats with people that won't use Signal but that's it. I've never had an issue contacting any business or any indivdual.
Sure you will get a bit socially disconnected at times but that's about it.
I'd really be an outcast if I didn't use it.
I still have whatsapp but some of my contacts don't even care to check it anyway so they can take 2 weeks to see your messages. How useful is that?
In the end I only really keep it to communicate with my family abroad and my in law's extended family in another continent. My own progeniture as well as my partner have conversation/xmpp setup on their smartphone + a laptop. While I haven't done a whatsapp suicide yet, I told them it was important to have other means of communication in case their phone died, a cloud vendor had issue or their account was suddently banned.
I used to be in a group of parents when my kids were in primary school but it was mostly useless and full of intense mums arguing against each other. I barely looked at it. My dance class supposedly has a whatsapp group but I didn't join it and I heard only a few annoying persons post random memes in it. I went once there only to see nobody there and heard it was cancelled afterwards , no big deal. I'd rather do the trip once for nothing than be spammed all year long with stupid memes.
Same goes for kids sports activities.
Meanwhile at the last work retreat they did everything through Whatsapp and it was so relaxing to be out of the loop.
I just checked with my roommate in the morning to get the planning for the day, and I wandered as I wished.
I missed a lot of impromptu events, sure. I also missed a few official events that changed place at the last minute. I went walking on the beach instead.
And for the events I was expected to be active in, organizers just made sure that I was where I needed to be when I needed to.
So I was able to completely relax and enjoy my stay.
In the end everybody was exhausted while I was refreshed like after actual personal holiday!
Enjoy your Whatsapp!
On a holiday of 10 people, everybody exchanging numbers means 10x9/2 = 45 actions, with many of those edges between strangers (higher cost edge)
Each person adding their friend to the Whatsapp group is 9 actions, with all edges between friends (low-cost edge)
So in practice, only the second one happens. He had one other person's number, but that particular person didn't check their phone.
Most whatsapp groups end up being muted by almost anyone because they are an annoyance so they are hardly the place where you would ask for help anyway because virtually nobody would get notified.
WhatsApp is undoubtedly big in Europe: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1005178/share-population...
Hacker News: No one needs it. No one uses its group features. Man Gesturing No Emoji. Just use a landline instead!
> If that is your friend he surely had your number right and possibly others?
He answered that.
> Most whatsapp groups end up being muted by almost anyone because they are an annoyance so they are hardly the place where you would ask for help anyway because virtually nobody would get notified.
Sure in a group of 10 everyone acts like you and mutes the holiday group for text, voice- and video-calls. Even on the last day with possible increased need for communication. How far can the goalposts be moved?
In my social group I was always the guy that wanted other to use my chat program. Last year I caved and installed WhatsApp. Guess what: I didn't die and it isn't half bad.
Before saying "E2E" please exercise your critical thinking. The OS is controlled by Google, so Google has access to everything in the phone's memory. The app is controlled by Facebook, so Facebook has access to everythig in the app's memory.
Okay, now we’ve established that even your dishonest spin on the relationship between companies that provide the software and communications using the software is extremely unconvincing: that’s a dishonest spin on the relationship between companies that provide the software and communications using the software. Google/Facebook has to mount an active attack, serving you malicious software, in order to get the kind of access you’re talking about, which is risky and something we’re slowly but surely getting better at defending against (attestation, transparency logs).
I do however have one mitigation: I don't run the whatsapp app on my primary phone. I use a matrix bridge. The app is still installed on another phone which is left at home. Because every month or so you have to enter the pin code (apparently meta thinks us users are retards that will forget it if we don't keep entering it).
On my phone I use the ElementX app then. I did get banned from whatsapp one time which was presumably to do with the bridge (I don't see what else it would be).
While WhatsApp is definitely the default messenger in many European countries, SMS and calling still exists and works on every phone. It'll cost you extra because of carrier shenanigans, but it's not like nobody has phone numbers anymore because of WhatsApp.
You may be left out of group chats if you don't share the same group chat app, but not being able to get into contact with anyone shouldn't happen.
Except for the companies that say you should use whatsapp to talk to the support desk. That phone number won't be ringing a physical phone that someone picks up when you call it
Couldn't he use the phone as a phone ? Or was he in Germany ?