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Comment by cbeach | Hacker News Reader

[flagged]

They just murdered a guy who was not obstructing them.

They kidnap, beat and then throw away citizens and legal migrants.

Yep, Pretti was a citizen. As was the Hmong person they detained in his underwear. Most of the people they detain aren’t criminals.

> People are obstructing armed immigration enforcement and expecting to come away unscathed.

It’s scary that people actually think like this. These types of unprincipled excuses for lawlessness and murder are how authoritarians get into power. It might have been more excusable in the past but not today when the videos show the murder for the whole world to see.

i just replied and then saw the comment was flagged LOL. For those that missed it the flagged comment said something stupid like “don’t obstruct ICE and you’ll be fine.”

They are misinformed i’m afraid. This is the BEST case scenario: https://apnews.com/article/minnesota-immigration-us-citizen-...

worst case scenario is you’re sent to another country, or killed.

I'd like them to explain, step by step, how holding a camera to document what ice is doing, can be considered obstruction. Are they doing illegal things that are obstructed by publicly available documentation?

What scares me the most isn't that we got into this situation, but that so many people think it's going well.

I'm looking forward to the days when we can call in the EU's help. But, I assume right now, they're focused on energy, food, and physical security.

The majority voted for this- this is the will of the people.

A lot of people voted for him but not necessarily this. I think that’s the problem when you vote for wildcards. Especially ones with his history, he has no reason to do anything but cause chaos. It’s his entire personality type too.

The border - and thus illegal immigration and not integrating immigration, was the main debate point up to the election. He ran on ice..

I still don’t think a lot of people expected gestapo tactics that spill out onto the streets to ensue. I think people want better border protection but not necessarily this

Don’t get me wrong, I know just as many (or more) people are loving these tactics but there is not homogeneity amongst his voters.

No, the majority of Americans that voted in 2024 voted for Not-Trump. He got less than 50% of the popular vote.

If you mean Republican federal legislators, then that's a much more complicated question and I think you'll need to explain how you're doing the math.

The US is a democracy so the majority decided, there's no need to sugarcoat it

Plurality techhinially, but it’s splitting hairs really.

The majority did not. A third did.

It was the second highest voter turnout in US history.

Which speaks to the weakness of US democracy. Nonetheless, only a third of the voting population voted for this.

Not really. 1/3rd voted for this and 1/3rd were ok with either candidate. Sometimes people democratically vote for bad shit.

1/3rd voted for this, 1/3rd voted against, and 1/3rd are complicit.

The fact that the US did this twice beggar belief. For those of us in the rest of the world who have no say but are bombarded by this shit daily, we hold you all responsible (no matter what 1/3rd you're in).

Not caring which option wins is not the same as voting for something.

Practically it is the same. And this is not a US exclusive situation. We see the AfD and other far right parties gaining popularity. People can vote for bad things.

People can also vote against a consequence decoupled elite that rule by virtual signaling to each other which was okay in a resource binge, ignoring the results their previous choices had for the lower echelons.

To hit the captain with a shovel may look like mutineer madness on any boat, but maybe a sign of necessary changes and reality grounding on a ship called "titanic" where the captain yells "right on, right on" into a pipe that does gurgling sounds.

You thought it was good enough. No action is a choice. You made the choice.

Choosing not to vote is implicitly voting for the status quo, whatever it happens to be. It's accepting fate.

If voters saw the first Trump term and knew about Project 2025 (which was public and publicly discussed) and didn't care enough to vote against the implementation of what was happening right under their noses then that isn't much different than voting for him.

If anything it's worse. At least the right is actively evil. At least voting third party, futile as it is, is making a statement. Seeing Trump's movement gain and consolidate power, listening to their beliefs, seeing the preparation of political infrastructure, January 6th, stacking the Supreme Court, the normalization of white supremacy, and knowing fascism could be a vote away and not giving a damn shows a depth of poisonous cynicism and cowardice that should brand a person for life. That will brand our entire society for a generation.

> It was the second highest voter turnout in US history.

My dude, you have seized upon a statistic that, while technically true, is also utterly-effing-meaningless.

To illustrate, I've calculated the headlines for other Presidential elections:

    1936  FIRST HIGHEST TURNOUT IN HISTORY!!!
    1940  FIRST HIGHEST TURNOUT IN HISTORY!!!
    1944 SECOND HIGHEST TURNOUT IN HISTORY!!!
    1948 SECOND HIGHEST TURNOUT IN HISTORY!!!
    1952  FIRST HIGHEST TURNOUT IN HISTORY!!!
    1956  FIRST HIGHEST TURNOUT IN HISTORY!!!
    1960  FIRST HIGHEST TURNOUT IN HISTORY!!!
    1964  FIRST HIGHEST TURNOUT IN HISTORY!!!
    1968  FIRST HIGHEST TURNOUT IN HISTORY!!!
    1972  FIRST HIGHEST TURNOUT IN HISTORY!!!
    1976  FIRST HIGHEST TURNOUT IN HISTORY!!!
    1980  FIRST HIGHEST TURNOUT IN HISTORY!!!
    1984  FIRST HIGHEST TURNOUT IN HISTORY!!!
    1988 SECOND HIGHEST TURNOUT IN HISTORY!!!
    1992  FIRST HIGHEST TURNOUT IN HISTORY!!!
    1996 SECOND HIGHEST TURNOUT IN HISTORY!!!
    2000  FIRST HIGHEST TURNOUT IN HISTORY!!!
    2004  FIRST HIGHEST TURNOUT IN HISTORY!!!
    2008  FIRST HIGHEST TURNOUT IN HISTORY!!!
    2012 SECOND HIGHEST TURNOUT IN HISTORY!!!
    2016  FIRST HIGHEST TURNOUT IN HISTORY!!!
    2020  FIRST HIGHEST TURNOUT IN HISTORY!!!
    2024 SECOND HIGHEST TURNOUT IN HISTORY!!!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_turnout_in_United_States...

Percentage. Not total count.

Except per the link, 2024 is #8 on that list. Not #1.

Use VEP turnout % not VAP. VAP is flawed. And I said #2.

Picking the metric where half of them have a `-` blank value seems a bit flawed.

VEP = only counts people who can actually vote.

VAP = counts everyone of voting age including people on visas who aren't allowed to vote.

We moved to VEP because the % of total population who aren't citizens started to grow rapidly. eg. see 2020 vs 2024. The eligible VAP count increased by 12M but actual VEP count only increased by 2M.

edit: looks like there is VEP data for older years though I am guessing its not very accurate: https://election.lab.ufl.edu/voter-turnout/#:~:text=National...

Looks like the 1800s had much much higher turnout! I guess my statement is only valid for the last 100 years.

> They just murdered a guy who was not obstructing them.

They shouldn't have shot him since he was not being violent. But he did obstruct: he was standing in middle of the street, acting like a traffic cop. When border patrol tried to arrest a woman, he got between them and the woman. That is obstruction!

After that they shot him without any reason.

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