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Comment by fwipsy | Hacker News Reader

Hot take: people get angry about veganism because they suspect, deep down, that vegans are right and feel guilty about eating meat. (Not taking the moral high ground here - I have put approximately zero effort into reducing meat intake at all.)

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Vegas are objectively right. I eat mostly vegan but still eat other stuff from time to time. I look at those times as me being selfish. I am an imperfect person and the vegans are right.

I kinda feel like vegetarians are right but consuming animal derived products is fine.

So long as they're humanely harvested? Some argue that cows are mistreated when kept producing milk as much as they are, but I haven't looked into it because I'm selfish too.

Cows are mammals. They produce milk for their young for a period after giving birth then stop, just like a human woman. Which means that for us to take their milk we have to keep them constantly pregnant.

Ask a woman (or think about it if you are one) how they would like being forcefully impregnated then having their tits constantly milked, year after year. As a bonus, the born kids are separated into girls to be milked in the same cycle and boys to be killed and eaten.

Agree if the animals are treated well; but I have a very high bar for that. I would also accept eating animals which died of old age if it could be done safely. It's easier to just round this to "vegan."

You might enjoy this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExEHuNrC8yU

The real problem with veganism is that you are a social outcast around normies. That was the biggest problem that I had. Also, veganism is essentially a "fundamentalist" way of thinking -- all or nothing. Now, I advocate for people to experiment with eating less meat and animal products, not zero. Even if people cut the amount of meat they ate by 20%, it would have a huge environmental impact. Also, the type of meat you eat also has a large environmental impact: Consider beef vs chicken.

Agree. Everything else is easy: taste, nutrition, cheap shopping... but if you decide to exclude animal products, prepare to face ostracism and you'll need to learn to cope with that. A simple and effective way is to ignore the blames and regards, let them flow to the ground without catching them.

Some people will get angry at you because you tried to do something good to much:

   - not trying: that's ok, everybody is free to keep his life as-is
   - trying 0-90%: that's ok, everybody is free to try doing some good
   - trying 90-100%: you're a fundamentalist, you can't change the world

My advice: don't argue:

   - "that's extremist" / "that's not natural" / [...] => That's an opinion, you won't change it. Smile and route to another subject.
   - "why are you [an extremist/unnatural/priest/...]?" => Question. Don't try to rant the full manifesto, you won't change their opinion neither. But if you feel confortable you may clarify a few inches of incomprehension :
      - Have you heard of vegansociety's definition[0]? I don't consider myself as an extremist.
      - I find Tofu very tasty!
      - I won't try to change your habits, just doing thinks the way I like them better.

Golden rule: don't get upset. You're always free to not being confortable discussing your choices.

0: https://www.vegansociety.com/go-vegan/definition-veganism

Hard disagree. People care about animals because they have faces that trigger their empathy. Plant life is still life. The destruction of plants to feed people is no more moral than the slaughter of an animal. The cutting of a redwood to make a desk is not moral. Many people also lack any kind of principle and make stuff up as they go. They get angry at killing a butterfly, but they don't care at all about killing a wasp. Likewise, people get upset about a pig, but they don't care about carrots. The carrots lack a face, and the wasp lacks pretty wings.

The carrot lacks a brain that can experience pain, fear and depression, that's why nobody cares about carrots.

I am not an expert in plant neurobiology, but:

https://nautil.us/plants-feel-pain-and-might-even-see-238257

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