Comment by fl4regun | Hacker News Reader

Comment by fl4regun | Hacker News Reader

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It should be noted that JLPT is not a direct equivalent to CEFR. CEFR requires you to pass speaking and writing, JLPT does not demand you to be able to write, or speak, at all. IT only tests listening and reading. This ironically means that while yeah, you will be able to read a LOT of kanji with JLPT N2, you might not be anywhere near B2 level at speaking and conversation, and probably not at all when it comes to writing (writing Kanji is a whole other thing beyond being able to read, it requires dedicated practice, but anyways a lot of people now don't need to since you can type it out on your phone or computer, and just copy that onto the form or whatever you are writing on)

Speaking as someone who reads around N2 level but can barely ask for directions, this is on the mark. I self-study and have few means or reasons to practice speaking, so it's never been a priority for me.

But I think this arrangement is actually quite...realistic? Charitable? It's very hard to become conversationally fluent in a language - especially one as foreign for most learners as Japanese is - without the kind of serious immersion you can most easily get just by living in the country (though maybe I'm just making excuses for myself). Asking learners to do the groundwork and get the foundations at home before getting hit with that immersion is going to set them up for success, facilitate their smooth integration, and demonstrates a candidate's seriousness. My impression is that in such a situation most learners will improve their speaking skills quickly, but there's no getting around months and years of drilling kanji.

> have few means or reasons to practice speaking

Hellotalk or italki are great for this.

There's probably not much value in JLPT adding a writing component, however, I do believe that the lack of a speaking component is really disappointing. Being able to consume a language is one thing, being able to produce in it, is another, and vital for someone who will be working and living there.

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