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Comment by mghackerlady | Hacker News Reader

For people unfamiliar wanting an easier comparison, Evangelion is Japans star wars. It'd be like learning of tornadoes from someone with Empire insignia

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> Evangelion is Japans star wars

Which is funny to say because Star Wars is actually the Western version of samurai movies (especially but not exclusively Akira Kurosawa's Hidden Fortress).

That's the movie that Lucas is pretty open about heavily drawing "inspiration" from (all the way down to specific characters and plot beats) but Hidden Fortress is itself part of a larger genre of similar stories.

probably closer to the 90's Batman: The Animated Series

ostensibly a kids show, but wayyyy darker and which has had a huge impact on later fandoms

I don't know how anyone could get the impression evangelion is a kids show, unless you consider all animation as "for kids"

It's a show about 14 year olds with emotional angst and the show reminds you the robots are a depression masking metaphor every other episode.

Yes, it's a show for pre-teens and teenagers.

I suppose on the surface, but also that analysis would also put akira and serial experiments lain in the same "for teenagers" category in a way that really doesn't fit any of these shows. The broader implications about the psyche is probably lost on most teenagers (I say this as someone who first watched these as teenagers, and I only picked up on some of the finer details because I knew they were there already. It's why I wanted to watch them)

Eh, Gundam is Japan's Star Wars. Released about the same timeframe (late 70's), tons of sequels and spinoffs, etc.

Evangelion is what happens when someone does a very successful riffs on the genre that Gundam is the most prolific example of.

More like Dragon Ball, which was half-inspired by Journey to the West, Superman, T2 and whatnot.

wouldn't it be more accurate to say its their star trek? admittedly not a gundam fan but I don't see it talked about or merchandised nearly as often as evangelion.

Maybe not in Western countries, but Gundam is HUGE in Japan and neighboring countries like Taiwan. A big part of it is that the merchandise is heavily focused on model kits, like Warhammer on steroids.

Oh yeah, I forgot about gunpla. I think the reason I'm so unfamiliar with that side of the mecha world is that it's so fractured if that makes sense. I have friends into it that I could ask but I don't need another expensive hobby haha

Evangelion is so mega overrated of an anime im experiencing second hand embarrassment on behalf of Japan for letting its national personaification be exlempified by shinji.

it is a masterpiece, up there with ghost in the shell, akira, and serial experiments lain in terms of "japanese existentialist scifi"

Lain is 10/10. Akira/Ghost in the Shell are great too. Evangelion is a weak 7/10 in comparison to them in every aspect imaginable. I also realized that Evangelion is Japan's version of assigning weird mysticism to religions they don't understand (much how westerners depict shinto/daoism/buddhism with tons of mysticism).

Evangelion is a disgusting anime to consider part of your national personification. Drop it and pick up Ghibli films more please Japan.

Evangelion is not “Japan’s version” of anything in terms of western religions. It’s one guy who was making a TV show. It’s not Japan’s “national personification.”

If you want to go down the rabbit hole you’ll find a lot of quotes from Anno and others on it.

A lot of it boils down to “we did this because it’s cool and we have no idea what Christianity is” down to Anno going “Yeah I could do this because no one in Japan is really going to care and I don’t really care about the Western world anyway.”

https://gwern.net/otaku

https://wiki.evageeks.org/Statements_by_Evangelion_Staff

It’s fine to not like it but it’s quite a step to go “this is how Japan thinks.” It’s akin to saying America is personified by the Simpsons every time they go to Japan.

But America is personified by the Simpsons!

I guess Saddam Hussein's propaganda team thought so in 1991 too.

It is a show about depression, which is why people love it.

The "weird mysticism" is just the reification (pun intended) of the urge to self-harm. i.e. Literally turning into a puddle of emotion, or allowing oneself to be crucified.

It's visceral in a way I've never seen before or since. Going all in on a surface-level understanding paid off in my mind.

> shinto/daoism/buddhism

The style of your comment is not making a good case for knowledge of this subject.

I guess it reinforces his point about the lack of knowledge of Japanese people.

> Lain is 10/10.

Caught the BeOS fan ;)

(I kid, mostly but remember Lain fans rabidly trying and espousing it)

I was more impressed with the obscure NeXT and apple references, BeOS only crossed my mind because I recognised the end card

i'll concede lain is better, but evangelion beats akira and maybe ghost in the shell. what problems do you have with it in specific?

"When it comes to the safety of this planet, it's NERV or nothin'." - ReDeath fan dub

There's nothing more overrated than a comment saying a great thing is overrated

It's an unpopular opinion for sure. Evangelion had great potential, a mysterious world, but it never reached it. I kept waiting for it to get good and then it just abruptly ended. I couldn't stand Shinji either. His situational paralysis was so frustrating. If he'd been a coward it would at least be understandable. But no, he sits there frozen half the show.

the emotions of the story are the point, not the story itself. Also, shinji is a coward. That's literally the whole point of the show, showing a cowards reaction to being forced into a situation that isn't avoidable in the most drastic way possible

Luckily, the show does a good enough job at explaining itself to those who care to learn the message. I watched it in my teens but only now in my 40s on my fourth view through does it actually finally make sense the way it should. Sometimes things take a while to click.

I feel like the easiest way to distinguish between those that get it and those that don't are asking their thoughts on the ending. If they prefer the original, they get it, and if they prefer the end of evangelion movie they don't totally get it. If they prefer the rebuild films they're in it for the yaoi and mecha which tbf I don't blame them kaworu is hot

I actually really like all of the above, is the thing; the idea that there are multiple ways the story goes broadens things. The Congratulations ending is still pretty brilliant though. You're making me want to go watch it again.

Anno Hideaki and his followers are just not capable of actually doing stories with much depth. It's all just shallow dopamine-maxxed mecha-tronic fetish paired with brutalist architecture and rushed out barely meeting deadlines. But pointing that out is like pointing out that ramen is just a single bowl meal with barely tolerable PFC balancing. Who cares. Uh half noodle garlic vegs sauce please. Yes half.

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